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  1. #1

    Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Hello, I made a list of changes I would personally do to mercs and primary weapons. I've been playing the game since open beta started, and I think I know pretty well how the small competitive scene feels about the balancing in Dirty Bomb. Even if I say this, these changes only represent my own point of view. I mainly play 5v5 so these changes are more focused on that. Any feedback is welcome, I'd like to hear what you think and what would you change about my list!

    MERCS

    broken tier: thunder
    god tier: vassili, redeye, sparks
    great tier: fletcher, aura, aimee, kira
    good tier: arty, nader, fragger, sawbonez, phoenix, phantom, rhino
    bad tier: skyhammer, bushwacker, proxy, stoker

    PRIMARY WEAPONS

    broken tier: MoA, felix
    god tier: stark, br-16, grandeour
    great tier: crotzni, m4, dreiss, pdp, k121, blishlok, hollunds
    good tier: timik, smg-9, hochfir, kek, remburg, ahnuhld
    bad tier: MK46

    BALANCE CHANGE SUGGESTIONS

    MERCS

    thunder: reduce his HP back to 160. reduce the max flash duration from 4sec to 1sec. increase the recharge time for conc nade from 15 to 20.
    redeye: reduce the smoke duration from 12sec to 6sec.
    sparks: change the revive gun from an ability to a primary weapon. remove the ability to ress with the gun and remove the dmg falloff from the gun, give her defibillators and remove her pistol.
    fletcher: increase the sticky bomb recharge time from 7sec to 9sec. reduce the splash damage from sticky bombs by 30% and keep direct hit dmg the same, 100.
    aura: start the cooldown recharing after the old station is broken, not after she puts one on the ground.
    nader: increase the grenade launcher recharge time from 7sec to 8sec.
    fragger: increase the grenade recharge time from 17sec to 20sec.
    skyhammer: reduce the airstrike cooldown from 70sec to 60sec outdoors, and reduce the indoor cooldown from 19sec to 15sec.
    bushwacker: reduce the turret cooldown from 30sec to 25sec.
    proxy: make the proximity mines invulnerable after throwing them out for 2sec.
    kira: increase the laser cooldown by 5sec, from 50 to 55.
    arty: fix the bug where he can destroy ammo and healing station through walls by arty striking close to them.

    WEAPONS

    MoA&felix: reduce bodyshot damage by 33% and increase headshot multiplier to 3x (felix from 79 to 53, MoA from 75 to 50)
    stark&br-16: reduce bullet damage (stark bodydmg from 18 to 15, headshot dmg from 36 to 30) (BR-16 bodydmg from 17 to 15, headshot dmg from 34 to 30)
    grandeour: reduce bullet damage from 40 to 37 (headshot dmg from 80 to 74)
    MK46: increase bullet damage from 11 to 12 (headshot dmg from 22 to 24)

  2. #2

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Why is Fragger on the same tier as Phantom?

  3. #3

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    I think Phantom is underrated merc, he has a lot potential. If enemy doesn't have a Redeye, that is

  4. #4

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Phantom has his uses, but they're very limited. He's not in the same degree of usefulness as Fragger by any stretch of imagination; it's almost never bad to have a Fragger, it's often bad to have a Phantom (even if not always). Proxy should be in a special category of bad because she's a strict downgrade from Fletcher.

    Also generally I find your suggestions very shortsighted and poorly rationalized, maybe it sounds harsh to put it like that but you suggest nerfs to mercs that are perfectly balanced as they are like Nader or Kira and aren't even common picks in competitive matches, and some changes that would have drastic effects (for instance no one in their right mind would use burst rifles with their current firerate if they dealt 15 damage, and that MK46 buff would make it an extremely high lethality weapon with insane magazine efficiency).

    Here are more mild suggestions by comparison:

    -increase the delay between bursts on the Stark from the current 260ms to 300ms
    -lower the damage of the BR-16 down to 15, BUT increase firerate by lowering burst cooldown to 133~150ms, maybe in-burst firerate to 750 up from 720 as well (basically make it similar to how it was before the CW update)
    -reduce the maximum cone of fire of the MK-46 slightly, lower Thunder's HP down to 160

    This will create a good difference between the 2, by further solidifying the Stark as a more carefully aimed weapon by punishing missed bursts while also giving it more time to reset some spread in between shots, and make the BR-16 the definitive "spam rifle". The change to the Stark will already make the MK46 more appealing along with the minor buff, keep in mind that statistically it is basically a lot like the SMGs in the game except with better range.

  5. #5
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    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Some tier changes I would have made:
    I think timik is of the same tier as the m4 (and slightly better).
    Blish in good tier.
    Hoch in great tier.
    I dont use shotguns much but always felt like ahnuld > hollunds but I dont use them enough to say things for certain.

    Unsure about pdp, driess and k121, mk46 since I dont use them and see them so seldom. (I dont know where to put the pdp on its own, in the hands of redeye its god tier).


    Imo phoenix isnt on the same level as bonez, but I guess the tier itself is pretty wide. He (phoenix) isnt bad, just a bit meh but its not just disadvantages. Also Aimee is god tier just that the other 2 snippers are broken tier.


    Some slight changes to the changes I would pref:

    Proxy mines now only explode when they are armed (phantom minesweeper haip).

    Kira: Remove (or at least lower) the noclip part from the lasor and give it a 2 second delay before the beam starts after the circle is complete.
    Make it stop doing damage when it fades away instead of it doing full damage while its barely visible (and the same with teh molly). Possibly lower duration slightly (the fadeout time).

    Arty: Better at doing damage to the EV.

    Edit: So sparks will just have her rifle and knife? that sounds like she will be way too ****. Dont really care either way for the nade changes for the soldiers. Maybe we should give fletcher 100hp so bushy becomes the tanky one >:).

    Weapon changes: Insufficient snipper nerf and dunno about the mk.
    Last edited by ostmustis; 4th Apr 2017 at 00:48.
    nerf teh snippers already...

  6. #6
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    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    x3onn!! Wow, all of those stats make total sense. That would really balance things out a lot if those changes were to happen. The only thing I disagre with is the sparks gun. I mean I hate it, annoying as hell to be killed with it, but its already trademark sparks gamestyle and a lot of pro's who practiced it deserve the right to continue to use it. Maybe increase the delay between shots though? e.g. powers up 50% slower? etc etc

    I really prey to god that the Dev's take a real good look at what you wrote there, some good suggestions man!
    Last edited by rosskii; 4th Apr 2017 at 00:33.

  7. #7
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    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    pheonix is good because he's the only medic with a Hochfir, he is good when team is pushing forwards, and the self-revive is an added bonus

  8. #8

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by ostmustis View Post
    Edit: So sparks will just have her rifle and knife? that sounds like she will be way too ****. Dont really care either way for the nade changes for the soldiers. Maybe we should give fletcher 100hp so bushy becomes the tanky one >.
    She would still have her mini-SMG as secondary. I like your Kira idea. Also about PDP, I agree it's still really strong in hands of Redeye but I'd say Grandeour is just slightly better now, which makes PDP the worst sniper rifle in the game

  9. #9

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by rosskii View Post
    x3onn!! Wow, all of those stats make total sense. That would really balance things out a lot if those changes were to happen. The only thing I disagre with is the sparks gun. I mean I hate it, annoying as hell to be killed with it, but its already trademark sparks gamestyle and a lot of pro's who practiced it deserve the right to continue to use it. Maybe increase the delay between shots though? e.g. powers up 50% slower? etc etc

    I really prey to god that the Dev's take a real good look at what you wrote there, some good suggestions man!
    Hey, thanks! Yeah my Sparks suggestion is a bit extreme, and I'm sure the range revive will never go away. A lot pros back in the days hated the idea of it but it's still in the game, so I'm sure it will stay. Sparks is complicated merc to balance for sure, average Sparks player doesn't focus on killing the enemy that much and just revives and heals teammates. But in good hands Sparks becomes a monster even after all the nerfs to her. Her skill gap is probably the biggest in the game so it's super hard to make her good for average players but not make her too strong for more competitive play. Btw I never said they should remove the actual gun, just make it a primary weapon without the ability to revive teammates, so she would have a slot for defibilators as second ability with medic packs, remove her pistol and let her keep the mini-SMG

  10. #10

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    I don't think that's harsh, I wrote all this down in pretty short time so it's just my general view of the balancing and I like to hear other opinions.
    I just put the Nader change there, because I'd like to see all the explosion cooldowns go up a bit. A bit less spam would be welcome specially in servers more than 10 players. I do think Kira and Nader are common picks in competitive matches, reason why they are not picked as often is because they are competing for same spots with snipers in the current meta, and snipers are superior most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnlazy View Post
    -increase the delay between bursts on the Stark from the current 260ms to 300ms
    -lower the damage of the BR-16 down to 15, BUT increase firerate by lowering burst cooldown to 133~150ms, maybe in-burst firerate to 750 up from 720 as well (basically make it similar to how it was before the CW update)
    -reduce the maximum cone of fire of the MK-46 slightly, lower Thunder's HP down to 160
    I was thinking about reducing the delay between burts, maybe that's better option. I just thought reducing the dmg per bullet would make Stark not one shot light mercs. There's too much weapons in the game that one shots you, and I don't like that. But your suggestion might be better in the end

  11. #11
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    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    understood about the revive gun. I mean changing the other stats would be easy for the dev's, but to change the revive gun to primary means you need to change all the loadouts etc. I dont think the dev's will like the sound of it, and I dont think they would want to modify cards that are already owned by players. Also on that, in terms of her reviving people from long range it brings up the issue of reviving while a player is trying to gib them. I came up with the idea that, any damage you give to a downed player should be taken away from their health if they got revived. So if you dont gib them in time and they revive, then their health will be lower if you shot them a few times, etc... Because those wasted bullets is annoying. Not to mention that they are also invincible for a few seconds (which is ok), but it adds to the problem of running out of bullets.

  12. #12

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by x3onn View Post
    I just put the Nader change there, because I'd like to see all the explosion cooldowns go up a bit. A bit less spam would be welcome specially in servers more than 10 players. I do think Kira and Nader are common picks in competitive matches, reason why they are not picked as often is because they are competing for same spots with snipers in the current meta, and snipers are superior most of the time.
    Nader is commonly picked to break the generator on Bridge and Kira to cover C4 plants. Aside from that they are only used optionally depending on play style, which is a clear sign that they are well balanced - they show up so they're not useless and they're not in every game ever/are guaranteed bans like Thunder and Redeye. Also keep in mind that they already randomly nerfed them out of nowhere by making Kira slower and halving the radius on Nader's nades.

  13. #13
    Junior Member Sawbonez's Avatar
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    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Personally I dislike most of these suggestions. The cooldown rates we have now make the game more fun, and for me, is a good balance between spam and tactics - not too much Overwatch, not too much CS:GO, just right in between. The game needs to attract more players, and I think these changes would just alienate current players, as well as turning off others toward more gimmick-friendly games like OW or TF2.

    Another thing is that I've felt the merc roster is very well balanced for a class-based FPS since I started playing 2 years ago. I never felt "wow, this merc is really OP", because most players I come across who are good with a certain class are good with another.

    Lastly, I should clarify I'm definitely not a fanboy. I hate the current loadout crafting system (weapon kits disgust me), SD has created so many bugs since the last patch with no fix, and there's still way too much grind for events.

    Just an opinion, man.
    Last edited by Sawbonez; 4th Apr 2017 at 06:00.

  14. #14

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    imo most balancing should be done on the weapons, and not core merc abilities; thunder as
    exception of course

    seems like snipers are back in full swing? they uppes the RoF and removed sway and snipers are back ? adjust the guns again

    redeye smoke, imo increase the cooldown between smokes and not the smoke itself, smoke is more fun as a strategic tool to be used at a crucial moment, rather then a spammy 6s advantage ability

    i still think the best burst rifle nerf is decreasing ammo capacity in clip

    many things can be done with sparks but removing reviver is gonna kill her for pubs - not gonna happen

    fletcher sticky up a second/two would be a good start to see how the other engies fare afterwards

  15. #15

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    if we remove drop&shoot mechanics from Proxy, then this merc is totally useless

  16. #16

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Glottis-3D View Post
    if we remove drop&shoot mechanics from Proxy, then this merc is totally useless
    I don't know, would it? I hear everyone complain about Proxy throwing pancakes and shooting them instead using their weapon to shoot the enemy. But yes it would make her weaker, I don't think there is anything to change about her to make her viable at high level play and honestly I don't see the need for that

  17. #17

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by rosskii View Post
    understood about the revive gun. I mean changing the other stats would be easy for the dev's, but to change the revive gun to primary means you need to change all the loadouts etc. I dont think the dev's will like the sound of it, and I dont think they would want to modify cards that are already owned by players. Also on that, in terms of her reviving people from long range it brings up the issue of reviving while a player is trying to gib them. I came up with the idea that, any damage you give to a downed player should be taken away from their health if they got revived. So if you dont gib them in time and they revive, then their health will be lower if you shot them a few times, etc... Because those wasted bullets is annoying. Not to mention that they are also invincible for a few seconds (which is ok), but it adds to the problem of running out of bullets.
    I like your idea, that the players health would be lower after revived if you shoot the player laying on the ground. I like the reviving style we have in DB more than for example in ET, but this would make it even better!

  18. #18

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnlazy View Post
    Nader is commonly picked to break the generator on Bridge and Kira to cover C4 plants. Aside from that they are only used optionally depending on play style, which is a clear sign that they are well balanced - they show up so they're not useless and they're not in every game ever/are guaranteed bans like Thunder and Redeye. Also keep in mind that they already randomly nerfed them out of nowhere by making Kira slower and halving the radius on Nader's nades.
    Kira and Nader are pretty balanced I agree, but like I said, I'd like to see the cooldowns for all the explosions go up a tiny bit. Kira laser should be almost same if not the same CD as Skyhammer airstrike, to make him viable option imo

  19. #19

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawbonez View Post
    Personally I dislike most of these suggestions. The cooldown rates we have now make the game more fun, and for me, is a good balance between spam and tactics - not too much Overwatch, not too much CS:GO, just right in between. The game needs to attract more players, and I think these changes would just alienate current players, as well as turning off others toward more gimmick-friendly games like OW or TF2 .
    You got a point. I'd like to see at least Fletcher sticky bombs get changed somehow, by increasing their recharge time or reducing their dmg. Right how they are way too effective, specially for an engineer class

  20. #20

    Re: Merc and Weapon balancing ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Szakalot View Post
    imo most balancing should be done on the weapons, and not core merc abilities; thunder as
    exception of course

    seems like snipers are back in full swing? they uppes the RoF and removed sway and snipers are back ? adjust the guns again

    redeye smoke, imo increase the cooldown between smokes and not the smoke itself, smoke is more fun as a strategic tool to be used at a crucial moment, rather then a spammy 6s advantage ability

    i still think the best burst rifle nerf is decreasing ammo capacity in clip

    many things can be done with sparks but removing reviver is gonna kill her for pubs - not gonna happen

    fletcher sticky up a second/two would be a good start to see how the other engies fare afterwards
    How much would you decrease burst rifle's ammo capacity? I haven't thought about that. Maybe it could work but I think best way to nerf them is reducing their fire rate or reducing bullet dmg.

    I don't know if it would be better to increase Redeye's smoke cooldown, or decrease the time it lasts. It's just really broken ability, always has been, in my opinion. Something should be done to it

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