feedback: burst rifles

(Szakalot) #1

burst rifles:

  • burst rifles are easily the best guns in the game, high accuracy, high alpha damage, high DPS, great damage falloff stats, viable at all ranges, with a tiny weakness up close
  • balancing the weapon by DPS,RoF or recoil is very hard and place burst rifles back on the UP/OP swing

Proposed nerf - reduced magazine ammo capacity:

  • preserves the direct power level and the ‘feel’ of the burst rifles (which is good atm)
  • pushes burst rifle to a more supportive DPS, as forcing to reload in prolonged duels would be a disadvantage
  • increases the close quarters weakness as being caught on reload is more punishing up close where you cant hide/run
  • makes burst rifle the best weapon for dueling, but a but less strong in large bumrush pushes
  • accents the distinction between burstrifles and LMGs, with M4/Timik in the middle ground
  • imo ammo capcity should go down to 21 - 7 bursts

additional reasoning here:

http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/comment/182220/#Comment_182220

(watsyurdeal) #2

I just want to point out that the primary problem with the BRs, is the insanely high damage output.

So, if you look at the M4, it does 14 damage, and has a rate of fire of 112. This means it has a total of 125 dps to the body, and 250 dps to the head, this is all of course assuming perfect aim and no damage fall off applied.

Now if you look at the BR-16, it fires a burst every 217 ms, and each bullet exits the chamber at a rate of 800 rpm, or 75 ms. Each shot deals 17 damage, so each burst deals 51 damage. Now, let’s look at the math here, the total dps is 235 dps to the body, and 470 dps to the head.

That is INSANE, even if you miss a burst, you still deal about 184 dps to the body, and 368 to the head. The risk here is VERY minimal, a player who could have done well with the M4 would have easily done better with the BR-16.

Now of course, the gun that has a higher risk should potentially be able to more damage, that’s a given, but currently it’s VERY absurd in terms of how much damage you can actually do. I think if you miss a burst, you should do just about as well or similar to the M4.

A simple clip size nerf wouldn’t change the fact that this gun has superior damage output in every way to the other guns available, even the K 121 is bested by it. The K 121 has 134 dps to the body, and 269 to the head.

The key thing here you gotta remember is that yes, the burst delay is slow, but the rate of fire combined with the damage means you can squeeze out highly damaging rounds very quickly with superb grouping.

(poiuasd) #3

Your math is wrong. BR-16’s raw DPS is roughly 140 which doesn’t make a noticeable difference in an actual fight, it’s the burst damage that makes these guns act like shotguns that don’t have such a limited range.

(Szakalot) #4

you underestimate clipsize nerf.
most fights last longer than a single clip, if you have to reload midfight you are vulnerable, and your DPS drops. its unlikely you can take on 3 opponents with 7 bursts, opponents can peek and bait bullets out of you, pushing when you are low on ammo.

the key point im making is that burst rifles are the best dueling guns - why not keep it that way while adding a glaring weakness relative to automatics.

nerfing other aspects of the burst rifles will just bring them back to the underpowered state from before.

you need to reward the alpha damage of burst somehow, and you have a very small window to do this without making the gun OP at range (slow rof, high damage) or just a glorified automatic (high rof,
average damage).

imo the burst rifles feel great to use, its just that they have no weakness atm. nerfing ammo is giving them that needed weakness. just imagine how useless the gun would be if you had to reload every 3 bursts

(watsyurdeal) #5

Care to explain how?

What exactly did you do to get to 140 dps?

[QUOTE=Szakalot;553548]you underestimate clipsize nerf.
most fights last longer than a single clip, if you have to reload midfight you are vulnerable, and your DPS drops. its unlikely you can take on 3 opponents with 7 bursts, opponents can peek and bait bullets out of you, pushing when you are low on ammo.

the key point im making is that burst rifles are the best dueling guns - why not keep it that way while adding a glaring weakness relative to automatics.

nerfing other aspects of the burst rifles will just bring them back to the underpowered state from before.

you need to reward the alpha damage of burst somehow, and you have a very small window to do this without making the gun OP at range (slow rof, high damage) or just a glorified automatic (high rof,
average damage).

imo the burst rifles feel great to use, its just that they have no weakness atm. nerfing ammo is giving them that needed weakness. just imagine how useless the gun would be if you had to reload every 3 bursts[/QUOTE]

In your post you stated 21 shots, that’s 7 bursts. That’s still enough to kill at least 2-3 people if you have good aim, and with the BR 16’s tight spread that wouldn’t be very difficult.

But I want to wait to see poiuasd’s math, to see how everything matches up. But dishing out 102 damage with a full burst to the head is nothing to scoff at, it’s still powerful enough to take down most mercs if not outright cripple them for the next shot. And with the way people move right now in this game the power of those bursts is really high.

(Szakalot) #6

imo its gonna be a lot harder to take 3 people down with 7 bursts than 35 M4, even when M4 deals less damage. if the opppnent has 10hp you still have to spend an entire burst to finish then off, gibbing someone is likely 2bursts as well.

i would say that a good player needs 3 bursts average against people of similar skill level. so if you want to gib that opponent you have 2 bursts left for the next guy.

i cant be bothered to check youe math but it is indeed wrong for sure, recall some discussion with the devs and burst rifles have dps i. the 140-150 territory, the only gun above 200 is the minigun which is at 300dps