Quick opinions on merc balance

(Szakalot) #1

I wanted to right an extensive post about Phantom/Thunder/Proxy but no time so here is a quick rundown of my views:

Phantom

  • almost at the right spot, don’t think he needs a secondary recon ability
  • main issue with non-katana (the only THEORETICALLY comp viable version of the merc - yeah, you wont ever be able to balance a melee weapon at high skill levels without making it OP on pubs) Phantom is that he doesn’t bring enough to the table. The armor doesn’t regen fast enough, he is quite visible, and doesn’t have any special killing potential/utility.
  • imo Phantom is almost viable as a hit&run flanking merc but suffers from some of these issues:
    *armor is pretty weak now that it doesn’t absorb infinite amount of one-off damage
  • armor activation is very slow and almost never works as a run-away tactic against good opponents
  • armor deactivation is slow and clunky, lowering his ability to be all around.

Imo the most interesting change would be to increase armor activation speed and/or allow Phantom to activate WHILST SPRINTING. This would allow Phantom to poke opponents and quickly run away, potentially making it a viable strategy in comp.

If SD is truly fixed on a secondary ability my favorite option is a cloak-field generator. Phantom can throw a generator similar in size/style to the heartbeat sensor that, in a few pulses would cloak all teammates (no armor, just cloak) for a short period of time. using any ability would decloak said teammates. Thus Phantom would have a direct teamplay (rather than indirect, by pulling enemies off choke, etc.) ability that would help his team to get through dangerous territory, and provide interesting ambush options (now a teammate can team up with phantom to 2-on-1 an opponent). Sensor can be destroyed just like vassili’s and cloak should be relatively short in duration (no more than half of phantom’s default sprinting cloak length)

Thunder:
-Main issue with thunder remains the lack of killing ability compared to nader/fragger. Concussion is kind of nice atm. but it just simply cannot match with an instakill&instagib nade, or the enormous utility of Nader spam.
-Imo the easiest way to make thunder viable is to make his non-concussion advantages more pronounced: since his hp is at a nice 160, the most interesting aspect to buff is thunder speed.
-Atm. he is too slow to be the pointman, just like rhino, can’t push; his lack of speed gets him cornered and outgunned. Give Thunder speed of Fragger and suddenly that bulky 160 hp can bull-rush any single opponent and dominate them with huge HP. I suppose he could have 170hp while we are at it. This way Thunder is the non-CQC version of rhino that has to be feared due to his enormous HP pool. Atm. there is nothin to fear with how slow he is.

Proxy:

very short, the easiest way to make proxy viable is to allow mines to stick on walls - QW mines.Ability to shoot them would present very interesting trap setups, while keeping her balanced in comp where FF-on makes proxy more a hindrance than an asset.

(Apples) #2

On thunder concussion nade, I think it should damage deployables regarding to their own HP, I mean that if a turret has 100hp (for exemple) it should be offline for 5 seconds for instance, a mine should be forever disabled, etc etc, this way the concussion can be a solid ally just before your engies rush for a disarm for exemple. Disabling a mines for 2 seconds then it pops up on and kill everyone in its vicinity do more harm than good, and this way thunder can be good for some meta strat. Agree on the speed tho, he’s just super slow at the moment, making him a giant bulletcatcher.

On phantom well, I cant really comment as I alsmost never play him except for fun when I dont play serious at all.

I think proxy is quite at her spot right now, didnt see yet how she plays at very high comp level but at “middle ranking” she’s already quite the killer type, and with ff on people just play her more aggressively at choke points and stop spamming stupid mines directly at the objective, I like the way she’s played now.

(NeroKirbus) #3

To continue this discussion, I would like to add a few ideas to some mercs.

Thunder
I don’t think his speed is insanely slow, it’s a meager 10 less than Fragger. I would like to see the a hitbox comparison between thunder and fragger to see if it’s a speed problem vs hitbox problem.

[ul]
[li] Buff his HP by 10 without a speed reduction: this would allow him to survive against two direct hit stickies with unshakeable as well as 2 HS from the grandeur. It isn’t much, but it gives him a bit of an edge in choice situations. [/li]
[li]A single damage point buff would do wonders with the MK46 (12 body hit, 24 HS). This is more than likely not needed, especially after the last round of buffs to this gun, but it still seems less effective than the K-121.[/li]
[li]His concussion nade needs more utility. Since it disables electronics, it would be neat to see it disable phantom’s armor, and even see it disable or slow the EV for a short period of time (4 seconds, half of the duration VS direct hit opponents). This would make him a unique choice that would allow him to stutter the EV’s movements at the cost of not killing foes as efficiently as the other assault choices. [/li][/ul]

Fletcher
Fletcher is a character that suffers from the same design decisions as the Demo Man in TF2. He’s supposed to be a defensive character that sets up traps, but instead he just spams his stickies in choke points without any repercussions whether he is defending or on offense. There are two different ideas that I suggest

  • [li]Idea 1 [/li]Reduce the number of stickies he has by 1, and reduce the AOE damage they have. Having an arsenal of bombs that can total to 300 damage is a bit insane. Reducing it by one makes him rely on his weaponry more often.

    [li]Idea 2[/li]Keep the number of stickies he has, but make his sticky bombs deal more damage the longer they stay stuck to the environment. (60 initial damage, scales to 120 damage; something like that) This would force him to be more defensive, and they still have the ability to stick on to mercs but at a lower damage threshold. It forces the player to decide to reinforce the defense, or supplement the offense at a cost.

Phantom
I suggest a rework of his entire ability to make him a team player, it’s a bit odd but I think it would be really neat.

[ul]
[li]Refractive Armor Rework: When Phantom activates refractive armor, he turns invisible for a short period of time, however, all allied mercs within his vicinity receive a shield that blocks a certain amount of damage. This shield refreshes (checks every second or two) as long as phantom is nearby and invisible. [/li][/ul]

This would make him a great support recon character, and it forces the enemy to focus the phantom that does not have any armor; just invisibility. This would create a weird game of cat and mouse. It would be rad to see Thunder’s conc nade counter this ability if it ever works out…

These are all of the ideas I have that I recall currently.

(Mustang) #4

There is no situation where Phantom is uniquely useful, therefore no reason to pick him over someone else, the others I find are either fine balance-wise in general, or excel in unique circumstances.

(Szakalot) #5

imo if armor was brought up to have some reduction on the last hit, and phantom could activate it very quickly i imagine he could become viable, at least within a draft system, where optimal choices are limited