Importing ET map features into DB

(ch3w0nth1s) #1

I am disappointed in Dome because it seems to be made for 10 on 10 gameplay rather than the norm 5v5. The map is littered with unnecessary routes (tunnels) and huge distances between objectives. A great way to speed up map design is to look at what has worked in past maps. Terminal and Bridge are modified versions of ET maps Oasis and Goldrush. Hopefully, this will spark map making tools and map making competitions to speed up the dev process of what is put into blockout.

Differences in ET maps and Dirty Bomb map design.

There have been countless post about spawn timers so, I will spare you all the details about that.

Constructible spawn points: There are no constructible spawn points in Dirty Bomb. In ET, there is a way to capture a new spawn for the attacking team. You could construct command posts and the defending team would want to destroy them so you lost ground. Similar to the capturing the spawn point flag on terminal but having to cover someone building or trying to destroy a spawn point. Adding this could add a huge element to the game. I know that there is no covert ops to break command posts in this game but you can use all of firepower (nades,guns, stickies) to destroy the built spawn point.

Examples of maps that could be ported into Dirty Bomb from ET maps with construable spawn points: Supply depot

Choosing spawn points: Being able to choose spawn points in the map. In ET you could choose to spawn at an alternative spawn to in theory have a different tactical advantage. Example from ET: http://imgur.com/NlMZUsE In dirty bomb you are forced to have the spawn you are given. In turn this makes maps more a straight line. Without being able to chose your spawn point you are greatly limiting your map design into a linear path. ET had maps that could use the same space of the map and have more objectives because of being able to set spawn points. An example would be in bremen: http://imgur.com/oDk3aC7 The attacking team would steal the truck and escort it to a former spawn point.

Examples of maps that could be ported into Dirty Bomb from ET map with construable spawn points and being able to chose spawn points: Frostbite, Bremen, Adlernest, Battery, Radar

NOTE: If there is a concern about too many indoor areas you could always beat up the environment like you did with underground so you can use fire support in key areas.

NOTE 2: since I am typing this up watching the dev stream and you guys said you won’t release map making tools… all of this is pointless but I am going to post it anyway. I hope you guys reconsider.

(spookify) #2

All great points! :wink:

(alphabeta) #3

+1 for great points and I really want more maps no matter who makes them.

-1 for " littered with unnecessary routes (tunnels) ". Had a great battle on Dome today and used the underground tunnels to successfully defend both pylons simultaneously. Most people don’t even realize the tunnels exist.

(Cankor) #4

I can’t say I miss the instant spawn cap from RTCW:ET where you had to time precisely when you cap the spawn and then everyone would slash kill 1 second later to re-spawn there to try and hang on to it. Even though it made things wild and fast it seemed more like an exploit than a feature.

I thought the way they did the spawn points and objectives in ET Quakewars were a perfect extension of the RTCW:ET spawn points. Those refinements really made a lot of sense to me as opposed to Brink which was a huge step backwards, there was no continuity when you finished the first objective to moving into the next, it was like “objective is done now hang-on while we re-start the map”.

On ET:QW you would still have everyone slash-killing to re-spawn at a forward spawn point though, the timing of taking it just didn’t have to be as precise because re-capturing it took so long.

But it seems to me that is where Splash damage has been going with the evolution, i.e. eliminating the need to slash-kill so you could re-spawn on next wave at the new forward. Getting rid of that mechanic makes the game more accessible, but I guess it’s lost something as well.

(Matuno) #5

Quoting a thread I made on the 4th of July that never got a single reply:

On the topic of breaking entrenched defenses…

First off, this isn’t Enemy Territory, and with how this game is designed, it never can be. There are some lessons to be learned from Enemy Territory’s success on the end of objective-based gameplay however, and I think it’s something that Dirty Bomb is sorely lacking.

Secondary Objectives.

  • Command Posts
    Sure enough, Dirty Bomb has a few secondary objectives such as the forward spawn flag or gate barriers, but they aren’t as feasible as they were in Enemy Territory. One of the most often overlooked, yet extremely important objective in ET was Command Post control. For those who haven’t played that: The Command Post increased the rate at which energy bars (supply) recharge. Abilities such as Airstrikes and giving out ammo/health were linked to this energy system.

Capturing the command post meant that your team is better supplied, and the enemy team would be somewhat crippled and unable to spam abilities.

Another difference is that ET’s secondary objectives were usually on a fair distance from the main objective, which created more ‘flow’ of power over the battlefield. Defenders had to move between different objectives, forcing them out of camping.

Lastly, in Dirty bomb, the secondary objectives aren’t very “secondary”. They still need a C4 plant that takes up a lot of time, giving far too much time to respond. There’s no equivalent to Satchel Charges, though perhaps the timer could be tweaked to be more like Execution?

  • Flags
    Another advantage you could get in Enemy Territory was through the securing of forward flags to spawn at. Only Terminal has such a feature at this moment, and it takes ages to capture for a very slight benefit (heck, I don’t even think defenders have to walk further than they would from their usual spawn). Perhaps more of these forward spawns could be created and balanced?

All in all, I like how Dirty Bomb is at this point, but I’m afraid it’s going to bore easily when you can’t do anything to make a difference. Adding secondary objectives would stop the stalemates we see so very often.

Thoughts?

(stealth6) #6

Nobody’s jumping in to discuss this since it’s been discussed to death already. If it’s not in the game by now it’s not going to happen.

Here’s more stuff I found by searching for “command posts”
2012: http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33596-Command-Posts
2013: http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/36253-Secondary-Objective
2014: http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/40575-Bring-back-command-posts!

Unfortunately I couldn’t find a reply from a dev on the matter.
If you’re a fan on W:ET keep playing it.

(ch3w0nth1s) #7

To be fair, I never suggested instant flag caps or command posts in the sense of how it was in ET. The attackers (jackals ROFL) and defenders don’t have different spawn times like how command posts created faster spawns for the attackers. The idea was to build something so you can spawn closer and would force the defending team to get out of their defensive spots to regain ground by destroying and covering the bomb at the new build. For example, if capturing the flag on terminal was a build instead of standing at a beacon. That is just an example I am not suggesting that change be made.

But all of this is pointless. They won’t release map making tools.