Maps all done and dusted? Some issues

(Violator) #1

It seems that there will be no further updates to the current maps which makes me sad :frowning: There are still several major issues to be addressed imho:

1) Terminal
Still too easy to spawncamp attackers once the tunnel has been sealed by holding the MG room / upper balcony across the pipe.

2) Underground
Typically an auto-win for attackers unless they are really bad. Too linear and the dynamic forward spawns + the final stage barrier choke kill it for defense.
First stage side doors - too easy to repair.

3) Chapel
That last objective, not going to go into it again…

4) Bridge
First objective still way too easy to defend. Last objective auto-win for attackers as defense cannot catch up to them once they get the docs.

5) Trainyard
Last objective has similar issues to Chapel but not quite as bad. No objective should require spawncamping defense in their own spawn.
Second objective side tunnel - too hard to blow, too easy to repair.

General observations
Maps are generally very linear leaving few options
Teams often only have one exit from their spawn leading to spawncamping
Objectives are often too close to spawnpoints
Dynamic spawns wreck defense lines

(BomBaKlaK) #2

[QUOTE=Violator;538439]It seems that there will be no further updates to the current maps which makes me sad :frowning: There are still several major issues to be addressed imho:

1) Terminal
Still too easy to spawncamp attackers once the tunnel has been sealed by holding the MG room / upper balcony across the pipe.

2) Underground
Typically an auto-win for attackers unless they are really bad. Too linear and the dynamic forward spawns + the final stage barrier choke kill it for defense.
First stage side doors - too easy to repair.

3) Chapel
That last objective, not going to go into it again…

4) Bridge
First objective still way too easy to defend. Last objective auto-win for attackers as defense cannot catch up to them once they get the docs.

5) Trainyard
Last objective has similar issues to Chapel but not quite as bad. No objective should require spawncamping defense in their own spawn.
Second objective side tunnel - too hard to blow, too easy to repair.

General observations
Maps are generally very linear leaving few options
Teams often only have one exit from their spawn leading to spawncamping
Objectives are often too close to spawnpoints
Dynamic spawns wreck defense lines[/QUOTE]

All this issues need fix ! +1 000

(signofzeta) #3

I don’t know about you, but the objectives in the map seem unoriginal if the objectives are destroy objectives all the time. We have 2 maps that is repair, escort deliver, 2 with 2 destroy objectives, although the second one you need to destroy 2 things in the end, and the third one is also 2 destroys with a deliver tacked on in the end. If the first objective for underground and trainyard were construct/repair objectives, then that would be cool.

This is true about the trackswitch. Why would you destroy it? Wouldn’t the switch be broken, and the track therefore won’t switch to the right one? Even in the website, it says to repair the trackswitch, not destroy it. There are probably other objectives that make no sense, but the first objective in trainyard makes the least sense.

(Szakalot) #4

[QUOTE=signofzeta;538639]I don’t know about you, but the objectives in the map seem unoriginal if the objectives are destroy objectives all the time. We have 2 maps that is repair, escort deliver, 2 with 2 destroy objectives, although the second one you need to destroy 2 things in the end, and the third one is also 2 destroys with a deliver tacked on in the end. If the first objective for underground and trainyard were construct/repair objectives, then that would be cool.

This is true about the trackswitch. Why would you destroy it? Wouldn’t the switch be broken, and the track therefore won’t switch to the right one? Even in the website, it says to repair the trackswitch, not destroy it. There are probably other objectives that make no sense, but the first objective in trainyard makes the least sense.[/QUOTE]

absolutely!

where is railgun, goldrush, reactor, volcano core, slipgate, etc. etc.

(jazevec) #5

There will never be a rail gun in Dirty Bomb, because there’s no rail gun in London.
There will never be volcano in Dirty Bomb, because there’s no volcano in London.
There will never be a slipgate in London, because London can only have one season at a time.

Earlier Enemy Territory games weren’t tied to one specific location. As big as London is, it’s one city.

I would happily play some maps in sewers, or on a skyscrapper. Or in a port.

Let’s hope they break away from the London obsession. London is featured prominently in the game’s background text, but it’s not called Dirty London, ffs!

(ZGToRRent) #6

In closed beta first trainyard objective was repair/hack trackswitch.
First obj. on underground was capture the building.

(signofzeta) #7

I’m just wondering, where is a beach assault map for this game? I don’t even care if London doesn’t even have a beach. The game would be fine if it featured all of Great Britain rather than just London though.

There are no construct objectives in this game. At least I don’t think think there is. There is no instance in the game where you are building something from scratch.

I wonder why they changed the first underground and trainyard objective? It seems kind of dumb to destroy something, then have to destroy something again. The world’s problems, or should I say, London’s problems aren’t always solved by destroying everything.

Of the maps they remade from ET, they both aren’t the least popular ones, like Radar and Railgun, and they don’t involve construct objectives that you can walk on, like bridges and assault ramps. If they had something like this, they could do a remake of Seawall battery, with some changes so that the door generator room is accessible from the outside, and from the inside via a window that you can get out from the inside, but you can’t go in from the outside. Blow up generator, door opens. Repair it, door closes. On the other side, you still have the assault ramp. If they had to do London so badly, the map doesn’t have to be set on a beach, so long as there are 2 entrances, one you must destroy, and can be repaired, and the other you must construct, and can be destroyed.

(alphabeta) #8

Can we just have some new maps please? I am bored with only 5 & 1/2 (dome) maps.

(Demolama) #9

First let me say that I love Dirty Bomb and I don’t think the maps are horribly designed but for me the maps are just devoid of any real fun factors that could provide players with some long lasting replay value. Let me explain why I don’t see them being fun in 2 years

  1. Developer’s single minded philosophy-- there must always be a front line

The maps are purposely designed to funnel people into small linear corridors where in order to progress to the next phase attackers must out kill their opponent to make it to the objective. You either out kill your opponent or you end up banging your head against the wall for the next 15 minutes. Currently there are no other paths to victory. And that is the crux of the problem. As of right now every map is nothing more than a continuous meat grind to the objective, which becomes very boring very fast.

Adding to this meat grind feel is the sheer crap ton of MG nests on every map with no way to disable them. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen people die on a MG nest, respawn, and then hop back on them, over, and over, and over.

  1. Phases: A part of this effort to always keep a front line are phases. These worked great in Quake Wars where the maps were huge. Unfortunately in Dirty Bomb they make small maps feel much smaller and only add to that meat grinding feel when there is no way to move on to the next “phase” other than out killing your opponent, which as I said ultimately makes for very boring game play.

I know SD isn’t making W:ET2 and I’m not asking that they do so but I do wish they would look at the maps they created for that game to see why even their worst maps, for me that is Battery, have continuously been played since they were released. And to me it becomes obvious, it was because those W:ET maps were designed with other victory scenarios in mind. For example, even during a stalemate game, where the allies are just not able to out kill enough axis to make any headway, the allies could still sneak in and win the game.

Why are there no smaller and sneaker routes to objectives? No ladders, no ventilation shafts, no team doors to sneak through, etc. All of the current set of maps funnel each team into one area, and with the aid of short spawn times, creates a rinse and repeat meat grinding experience. Currently there are no “oh crap how did someone get to the objective?” moments because of “phases”

Do you really need to do the track switch before blowing the blocker car on Trainyard? nope, but to ensure you do the map designers placed gates that are “blown” open to allow access, which makes no sense other than “because phases”

The same can be said for Terminal, the Dirty Bomb equivalent to W:ET Oasis:

In W:ET jumping over the wall to plant on the final objectives was one of the ways in which the Allies could win even if they could not outgun the Axis. But wall jumping, while encouraged by developers in Dirty Bomb, is also punished by them on Terminal. The map designers decided that since defenders do not have a team door, any attackers that jump over the wall should be punished by not giving them access to the next phase. So what is the point of allowing attackers the ability to jump over the wall if you don’t give them access to the objectives? Since wall jumping takes skill and hard to master it should be rewarded not punished

Just give us other paths to victory and stop the meat grind

(Destroy666) #10

There were hundreds of topics and posts about maps, yet they’re nearly as bad as they were, with some small changes. Not many dev replies either. Disappointing.

(alphabeta) #11

[The maps are purposely designed to funnel people into small linear corridors where in order to progress to the next phase attackers must out kill their opponent to make it to the objective. You either out kill your opponent or you end up banging your head against the wall for the next 15 minutes. Currently there are no other paths to victory. And that is the crux of the problem. As of right now every map is nothing more than a continuous meat grind to the objective, which becomes very boring very fast.]

Terminal first objective is the worst of this philosophy. Blow the access to the tunnel and the entire attacking team is directed into 2 corridors of crossfire. Often so bad that the defenders can spawn camp almost within the attackers spawn.

New maps please.

(Bangtastic) #12

Last objective on Bridge: Spawns need to be re-evaluated

(jazevec) #13

It can’t happen.
I’m a sneaky bastard and I bypassed many defenders in Dirty Bomb. The problem is, it doesn’t matter! You can’t steal the objective, even if you arrive at it alone. The timer of C4 is 50 seconds. There is no multiplanting, so two players can’t sneak and spam explosives.

Also, objectives are always in the middle of the meat grinder. Compare with official Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory maps!

  1. Radar - when you get one of the radar parts, there are many ways to escape, and ultimately you can move them through one of two bottlenecks.
  2. Battery - while the assault ramp is in the middle of the meat grinder, gun controls are in the middle of nowhere. The place is harder to defend.
  3. Gold Rush - you can sneak to the tank from many directions. Not true for later objectives.
  4. Oasis - (final) objectives are well past the meat grinder bottlenecks, and if you can get to them there are many places to hide and passages to lurk in.
  5. Fuel Dump - the final objective is a certain distance from the bottlenecks.
  6. Rail Gun - okay, this one is a pretty hopeless meatgrinder, with objective in the middle.

Now Dirty Bomb!

  1. Terminal - final objectives in the middle, almost in the open. Bullets flying from all directions. First objective is very exposed and close from the cover defenders use.
  2. Bridge - first objective is a total meat grinder, because it’s in the middle of cover used by defenders, and most paths to it lead through open spaces. No sneaking to that one. No sneaking with the EV. The last objective can be sneaky though, to the point of being unfair. Still, it can take minutes to insert the canister into the container if defense makes it there in time - final objective is in the open.
  3. Underground - total meat grinder, all objectives in the middle. The only sneaky thing you can do is closing barriers, if there’s no rhino, nader or fragger guarding the path.
  4. Chapel - all objectives in the middle, always.
  5. Railyard - all objectives in the middle, always. One sneaky thing you can do is going under the bridge and closing the gate, but that’s just one objective.

If objectives were a certain distance from the main arenas and bottlenecks, in (semi)covered areas, there would be more sneaking potential.

(alphabeta) #14

New maps please! New maps please! New maps please! New maps please! New maps please!

(Bangtastic) #15

We recently got an environment pass on chapel, thats like a new map :D. Dont be so impatient :wink:

(jazevec) #16

Don’t you think mercs are a bit too thin ? I used to think classes in Tribes: Ascend were stretched too thin, but in Dirty Bomb many mercs have only one ability and no unique weapons:

  • Phoenix (self-revive may as well not be there)
  • Phantom
  • Fire support mercs (ammo giving ability is marginal, so they feel like having just 1 button)
  • Rhino (weapon loadouts are pointless, all you care about is perks, rhino doesn’t even have a machine pistol for variety)
  • Proxy, Bushwacker, Fletcher
  • Nader
  • Fragger is effective, but fairly boring

This probably wouldn’t be a problem if there were several to choose from, but there are two permanent and three in free rotation. And those in free rotation are often medics or fire support. Mercs are often one trick ponies with an auto weapon.

(Szakalot) #17

Naah. Mercs play very differently, if you know what you’re doing. Its just that its a little more subtle.

(light_sh4v0r) #18

Check the new test server, they ditched classes alltogether :slight_smile:

(Loki.) #19

If they are anything like the current rotation, No Thank you!

(jazevec) #20

The logical conclusion is:
Fewer maps! Fewer maps Fewer maps!!!