So Frustrated


(spookify) #1

I feel like Pixel back in the day doing a rage thread but I had thee most frustrating Ranked MM of my life yesterday!

Looking forward IMO DB will turn away from being a pure shooter. It already has in Comp play like Dirty Cups and DB Nation and whatever that Lion thing is. They are all doing 1 Merc limits… Sooo Basically if your Fragger sucks or you have an Aura on attacking you are going to loss. That is basically what DB is right now. Combine that with some very bad maps right now and limited mercs and its time take a small break.

My example above with the Aura is pretty bad because all the teams in Comp or those events will have very specific strats and classes. I do see a problem when we have more and more mercs released with the better team not winning and just simply bad luck of the draw picking mercs. But again scrimming and strating should eliminate some of this and actually make some mercs useless.

I got my but kicked last night and it makes me want to /quit the game forever because the feeling it gave me. I had 3 completely wrong classes and felt useless. One was a fragger but I knew if I switched to having two fraggers the other team would QQ and with 3 minutes left and our loss was given I switched and they still cried… So basically the two mercs I had where useless against the Defense the other team set up. This was a very good team mind you and they were running their comp strat but if I had fragger I feel I could have broke it. 13 minutes of banging my head against a wall on a small stage 1 terminal… How dumb!

DB is KILL KILL! However when you finally do the enemy team spawns right back on you… Spam Spam… This rage might just be the crappy maps and the more i think about it that is what I think it is. But even some of the bigger maps it is still just crazy spammy and you need a good fragger to win.

I am so filled with rage after that last match yesterday its unbelievable and I can only see this game getting worse when it comes to this frustration. (Unless maps improve greatly) But this class vs class, merc vs merc game match up is going to be though for SD… Pure shooters will hate it because they cant get a merc that can carry and Objective players will hate it because they will get rolled. Combine all that with pre-made 5’s actually running a strat in a Ranked MM and say good bye to DB. All that will be left is Events like DB Nation for a very small few players and havent we all seen that before.

I know Dev’s hate to hear posts like this and QQ spooky didnt get Fragger go run home and tell your mom but thats the point… I would like to know the ratio of the player base that SD wants in Pubs vs Ranked vs Third Party Comp. I am sick of pubs and do not have time for Third party comp so Ranked MM matches are a perfect way to relive the good ole days very quickly. In ranked MM there is no merc limit so I could have gone fragger and probably should have because why not I want to win. But what if it was a scrim or pug where people call one merc limit and you are stuck with nader… However you suck with nader yet you know you probably should win if everything was balanced. Are you saying too bad you are stuck with your class you picked so suck it up… That is a horrible game feeling to be basically useless in a match. But then again 50% of the other mercs would have also felt useless and thats the point. Fragger, Medic, Medic, sniper or 5 bushwackers haha!

Sorry for the rant but Im sooo pissed off and playing useless mercs on bottleneck maps… Fragger is broke for comp because no one else has nades and medics are to weak to assist in direct head on pushes. This game is a giant camp and spamfest. Shot run and heal push kill die spawn repeat. boring…

EDIT: Even though this is a pretty uninformative rant there is a lot of good information below.


(BomBaKlaK) #2

Same here …


(Glottis-3D) #3

1 merc rule is a bad desision, why we even have 3mercs pool ingame then??


(k0k0nat) #4

Just get over it. Nothing is ever going to happen, Dev’s are fine with the core gameplay.
But hey, I had so much fun with the dollars I invested.


(Rémy Cabresin) #5

1 Merc rule frustrates you? Wait till we get drafting like in MOBAs and you get stuck with 1 merc the entire game :DDD


(Glottis-3D) #6
  1. teams have 5 ppl and not all of them have all mercs and not all of them even want to play shtogun/blishlok mercs. so it is very limited choise
  2. ppl cannot properly switch and to needed merc sometimes, for these very reasons.

example: Sawbones is a musthave merc, while aura and sparks have too much disatvantage on certain situations.
imho 1 merc rule is a bad desision with current merc pool (no Stoker, no Phoenix, no Thunder, no Turtle)


(Rémy Cabresin) #7

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;537596]1. teams have 5 ppl and not all of them have all mercs and not all of them even want to play shtogun/blishlok mercs. so it is very limited choise
2. ppl cannot properly switch and to needed merc sometimes, for these very reasons.

example: Sawbones is a musthave merc, while aura and sparks have too much disatvantage on certain situations.
imho 1 merc rule is a bad desision with current merc pool (no Stoker, no Phoenix, no Thunder, no Turtle)[/QUOTE]

Yea but that has nothing to do with the rule. That’s a problem because people have preference. Those people need to play public so they can play whatever they prefer, in a team based competitive mode people need to also learn other things and sometimes play mercs that fit better in the team over what they like most.


(Glottis-3D) #8

some mercs are more limited than others. and 1merc rule forces ppl to play merc, which they do not want/like or even do not have!
so i think this rule helps those teams, with more versatile players with more mercs in the pool.
i.e. a new team with aura+sky even if its good will be screwed because of 1merc rule.


(BomBaKlaK) #9

1 merc rules is not fun at all in my point of view, this rule limit the game and every team will take the same roster in the end.
Nothing really interesting there is not enough mercs for this. Maybe with 40 mercs tha can be nice but here even with 20 mercs everyone take the same mercs
(Fragger / Sawbonez / Skyhammer / Bush) most part cause of the weapons (M4 / Crotzni / Kek 10)
Lot of weapons feel really inconsistent like (smg9 / Blishock) and this people don’t want to play this mercs for this simple reason.

My main frustation is still maps … I really hate this hamster tunnel cluster**** map design …


(ToonBE) #10

I moved over to csgo. I like it a lot: +70hours now and gold nova II. I love the feeling it gives me(clutching, making kills, communication, skills needed, nades, etc… just awesome!) Wish I could do premade matchmaking with some dirty bombers! Also the competitive scene is so massive… NV, TSM, fnatic, VP,… very nice to watch them play f.e at esl one cologone

Pm me on steam for some MM!


(Chux) #11

The 1 merc rule exists due to ability spam since there is no global cooldown for some stuff like fire support and mines


(Glottis-3D) #12

so, a bad gamedesign desision is compensated with a bad rule…


(Chux) #13

I was never a fan of it from the start. But I remember 3 Fragger teams and that **** was no fun for anyone.


(spookify) #14

You and Glottis-3D had a very good back and forth but I agree with Glottis. You can practice a merc all you want but Maps, Counter Mercs and thee mercs ability makes them useless. I would say that the gun and HP are also a huge factor. Whats the point of being faster when you dont stick with your team? You faster and have less HP so you arrive first and get crushed… This game seems much more set up for Defense both with the maps and mercs. Medics arent quite needed as much on D because you can kill out and only have a small spawn time. All you need to do is poke poke poke kill the medic on their team, re-spawn and then long spawn them… Repeat. But back to your point no matter how good you are with some mercs they just dont fit into a comp or high ranked MM game. But again that all based on the map…

[QUOTE=ToonBE;537605]I moved over to csgo. I like it a lot: +70hours now and gold nova II. I love the feeling it gives me(clutching, making kills, communication, skills needed, nades, etc… just awesome!) Wish I could do premade matchmaking with some dirty bombers! Also the competitive scene is so massive… NV, TSM, fnatic, VP,… very nice to watch them play f.e at esl one cologone

Pm me on steam for some MM![/QUOTE]

FYI, my frustration came from a Ranked MM match. This was my most skilled and “balanced” ranked MM I have seen. Even though we had 3 mercs each everyone agreed under the table to not duplicate mercs. I was fine with this until it came down to throwing down DPS and pushing vs a team running a strat with amazing crossfire.

The map is the number 1 thing to blame. Spawn Placement and very tight spaces. Then it falls to having basically 1 medic sawbonze that can keep his team alive while pushing forward.

Once these better teams come in and have the exact timings down and can pre-fire spam corners and put down crazy crossfire this game doesnt have a chance. The medics simple can not keep up especially with the pack stopping heal as soon as you are hit. Also a lot of very good matches and scrim are simple poking the attacking team long enough for a person to run around the small map and back rage them. There is a lot of shifting going on in this game. A medic is both OP and useless at the same time its super hard to explain.

If I would have picked a better 3 mercs at the begining knowing we were playing one merc rule that might have made a difference. I would have had 3 mercs to choice from to make a better push.

BUT, that is my main point.

What happens if this happens? Every Team will have a Fragger and Saw… Then what? Then its a crap-shoot based on your strats and scrims to see what other 3 mercs are the most versatile. You cant have just one merc that is good at Defending by weak on attacking. You will need a merc is good HP, Speed, ability and gun and then a medic to back them up. The splash/spam mercs are going to take over this game when more mercs come out. It will turn less into a gun battle and more into a blast battle. Less about medics on attacking and more hurry and spam their position knock out their camping life lines and then set up for a spawn camp. There’s spawns are not long and so close to some objectives that when you push and win you have to keep one nade or ability so you can kill them all over again in less then 50 seconds!!!

PS - I know this Thread started with a flame but I really like where the thread is going so keep up a good discussion on 1 merc limits, drafting, merc skills, gun play, cross-fires, strats and maps. Thanks


(BomBaKlaK) #15

This is the case in pub, everyone test some merc then a lot stick with fragger cause of the OPness of nades/huge heath and M4/machine gun, or nader due to the long distance spamming (easy for noobs) in the end we have a huge amont of this “assault” classes everytime and the spam fest begin !

And what I see from Dock Yard and Dôme, with this new kind of more open design maps (that I like much more than actual maps in term of map scale), smg will became even more useless due to the fall off and the spread. Shotguns will became less efficient to and very situational


(Szakalot) #16

Exactly!

Mobility is never worth the loss of HP and DPS. If a team could have all mercs at rhino speed (or even half of that, lol) with 200hp; they would steamroll any opponent. All of the objectives in this game require wiping the entire enemy team. Who cares that proxy can run with delivery faster, if you have to clear everyone out first; before you can even think of delivering anything?

Bridge is the only exception, but there its so easy to deliver once you get obj, that it doesn’t matter either. Any C4 plant is best done by killing everyone and planting afterwards. Especially with 50sec fuse, you will have to wipe the team twice more to get anywhere with objectives.

Both team’s attacking/defending simultaneously (capture the flag) could change this A LOT.

Mobility only matters if it is about outrunning the opponent. Nothing like that exists in this game, its all about killing everyone in sight.


(NeroKirbus) #17

In terms of draft mode, if it’s going to be implemented it should be in line with MOBAS; if a player chooses that character, no one else can pick them, foe or ally alike. It would force more creative strategies as well as attempting to counter pick the opposing team. The only way to have this work, is of course, having twice as many mercs as we have now. If there’s that many, then there should be a banning phase for each team, scaled to how many are currently in the game.

Just my two cents.


(Demolama) #18

With the release of new mercs we should have 4 mercs per class, and with the potential of more than 4 in the future (think Javalin), there is no reason not to have 5 ingame slots for each merc category that we could prefill with our desired merc for each class. Also, by bringing back the 5 slots you can remove the redundant “every merc can do the same thing but some faster” design flaw in a class-based shooter, because as you can see in this post rant, not all mercs can fill every role for every situation. Or bring back nades for every class and give fragger a new nade type or don’t allow other classes to resupply their nades. Afterall the maps were designed with everyone having nade access.


(spookify) #19

ZING!!! Was it fun when we all had nades. All maps probably should be taken with a grain of salt. They will change and evolve and possible save this game.

As to your overall post I totally agree that mercs should be available in a pub. You own them why not access them. There are a lot of problems with people leaving a pub after a match. Switching Mercs, opening cases and so on and so forth. SD needs to make pubs fun to play for hours on end. End round rewards, bonuses, ability to select whatever mercs you want, opening crates in game, detailed stats and multi map stats and much more.

This is crazy true. Best example I can think of is an Auro on Defense is pretty awesome on specific maps while her on attacking is much harder. This is the same for a lot of mercs so what you end up with is people picking mercs like a sawbones that has balance for both attacking and defending.

We will need double or triple the amount of mercs in-order for this to work. I am not totally against the idea but SD and other’s need to remember that you have attacking strengths of a mercs and defensive strengths of the merc. I hear it all the time that aura is awesome because she can hold down a specific area of the map. Yes, on defense that is amazing but if you can only pick one merc you will have to weigh you timings on SW. Possible a longer hold on Defense with an aura and then switch to attacking and basically play 5v4 because she has no poke nor heal while pushing forward?

SD and some people think Medics are strong. They are really only strong on defense and even if you massively buff medic abilities you will only see the attackers get stronger as they will be able to push more. The poke on some medic gun and the HP really hinders their Attacking ability. This is why Sawbones is all around the best medic and even on pushes his packs are useless as they stop heal as soon as you are shot. All this teamwork and pushing and you might get one revive and heal for a direct hit and die and do it all over again. This is why people are picking snipers it takes all the chance out of the equation. Fragger is the same way. Nades can gib and also get multi kills. Both these mercs are very controllable and have a huge impact on the game. Their offense and defensive strenghts are the same 100% both sides of the field.

If I was SD I would have a merc ranking. They have the little chart with speed, ability, HP and all that Jazz but what about ranking their Offensive and Defensive ability? Aura is 85% Defensive and 15% Offensive… Fragger and Val are 50% Both side so its a balanced merc. Sawbonzes ins 55% Defensive and 45% Offensive making him by far the most balanced medic. You can ask me what about sparks!! I would rank her 68% Defensive and 32% Offensive. She does have a poke, but her limited HP really makes her weak on attacking. The maps are a big issue for her and naders. About 50% of the maps are not just flat right angles. You have vertical areas that are very hard to pop a nade or get a direct line of sight with the revive. So even though she can revive from a great distance there are really only a few area’s where that is effective.

So what do you do? More mercs, more maps and balance the currently mercs with this Offensive and Defensive ranking. SD I’m sure is well aware of this but I think this O and D ranking will add a new dynamic.


(pHine4s) #20

What a pity, yet understandable.
Had some nice TP with you back then.
As a pure pub-player, i see it totally different:
High skilled comp players are too pro to teamplay, that’s my experience.
Ususally there is this “nobody understands to play, so i dont even bother to have a look around if there are actually some players tryin to stick with me intentionally”.
Not that i say, you do, no offense, more a general experience.
What i don’t understand is why there is not even a try to have 8 vs 8 comp, this where i see the fun looking to the diversity of mercs,
where is that unwritten law, that comp is played best 5 vs 5, since ther never is one to try?
Since there isn’t i stick to pub, always having nice surprises (and sure some intensive frustrating moments, too).
Of course i wouldn’t see myself in the same league with my humble average skill.
I do miss the pros on pubs though.