More details about ranks/ELO.

(ZGToRRent) #1

Is there any chance to see current ELO from MM? I won a lot of matches, and lost some because of cheaters and I’m in Gold 1 rank for at least 2 months. My winstreak is actually 4-6 and then is broken by 1 match with cheater. Is this not enough to advance? Maybe it’s a bug, maybe my rank is frozen or something.
I would like to hear some more details :slight_smile:

(Volcano) #2

need to play people above your rank

(spookify) #3

Yep imo win and losses arent really that big of a deal. If you play a better team and loss its really not that bad. If you beat them oh snap might be some nice elo coming. Plus do that and repeating for a few weeks will rank you. It took me 4 or 5 weeks to go from gold 3 to cobal 3

(ToonBE) #4

I played a lot of competitive up untill a couple of weeks ago and I am still silver 1… :frowning: please tell me there is a bug… pleaaaaseeee

(Anti) #5

There are a lot of issues with the ranking system. The way matchmaking has ended up working we’ve not seen the skill rating ranges expand as we expected and as a result the rate of change between ranks is too slow.

There are plans to fix this and then put matchmaking through something of a re-calibration phase, but right now I’m not sure when that will be going live. All I can tell you is it’s not where we’d like it to be a present.

When we get to the point that the fixes might be incoming I’ll make sure we message that out to you folk in the community.

(INF3RN0) #6

Please seriously consider splitting the ques into duo and party. There’s no point in playing MM when it ends up being a game of ‘may the best 5 man win’, not to mention only getting qued against low ranks/levels 90% of the time. Albeit the last MM game I played about a month ago we got matched against 5 botters, so then there’s that too lol.

(Rémy Cabresin) #7

What are the real problems with different queues, outside of the resources and time? Suggestion:

  • Unranked from level 5+
  • Ranked Solo/Duo from level 10+, have to own 3 mercs(Apart from Aura+Sky)
  • Ranked Teams(for now 5 stacks only, but in future registered clans when supported) from level 15+, have to own 3 mercs(Apart from Aura+Sky)
    Each players has 2 different ranks on his ‘profile’, your Solo/Duo rank and your Team rank(you can only be in one MM team at a time and it will display that teams rank.

I guess you could argue that this “splits the playerbase” which imo is the only downside in some eyes but, hoping, the playerbase picks up quite a bit again after beta, a system like this seems much more sustainable than the “throw everyone in the same ballpit and cross fingers” MM we have so far(even if all the elo/mmr/whatever gets fixed, it still doesn’t stop people from getting solo vs stack scenarios etc). I think it’s pretty safe to say, though ofc I dont have the exact numbers, that a lot of players tried MM but are extremely put off by just getting stomped or stomping, being it for skill differences or solo vs stacks etc.

(BAMFana) #8

This. I used to enjoy solo queueing quite a bit, but these days most games I get placed with 4 level 5-10s against a high rank fivestack, which is just a pointless waste of time. Unfortunately very few good players solo queue, meaning it’s nearly impossible (I’ve never seen it happen in ~40 mm games solo queueing) to get 5 good un-partied players on the same team. Instead, what usually happens is that the matchmaker just gives up and places 5 low rank or unranked players against the fivestack, leading to a miserable experience for all involved (except sick6/tag, who apparently enjoy this sort of thing).

I think the matchmaker should refuse to place fivestacks against solo queuers with an average rank of 1 below the fivestack, or only place fivestacks against other fivestacks. Either that or the separate duo and party queue system proposed. Even if that means fivestacks sometimes have to wait a long time to find a match, or even won’t find a match sometimes, I think that’s worth the tradeoff. The current system is a nightmare – I honestly think fivestacks playing against solo queuers is ruining mm to a much larger degree than the rampant hacking ever did.

(Glottis-3D) #9

i agree. 5stacks should just find a pcw.
but currently there are no closed 10ppl party for pcw, nor rental servers.

(Rémy Cabresin) #10

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;537446]i agree. 5stacks should just find a pcw.
but currently there are no closed 10ppl party for pcw, nor rental servers.[/QUOTE]

Doesn’t matter, enough private servers to use. The thing is, not every 5 stack is a team or wants to play as a team. As Fana said, we play quite a lot with mixes of ET players(some of which literally got level 5 minutes before) simply because we enjoy playing with friends, regardless of who or what we play vs. We don’t enjoy stacks vs non stacks, but we prefer that over solo queuing, if people are salty over that that’s their problem/fault not ours. But most of the time we play pretty much the same as most of us would if it was solo or duo queues, we just want to avoid retarded teammates you often get in solo/duo. If we want to play ‘serious’ games vs teams or scrims we get them, personally I have atleast 1 player from every notable team on Steam so if we wanted to get a ‘more serious’ game like pcw or scrims we could and would. But not every match has to be a ‘try hard’ match, sometimes you want to just play with friends in MM and play around. Add to that that right now MM has zero ruleset, as of now it’s pretty much just public rules with 5v5, we often do like 5 of the same merc and yesterday we even did the ‘Pineapple juggler challenge’… Says enough about how we see MM atm.

The problem isn’t seperate queues or elo/mmr. The problem right now is simply that not enough players are playing the MM game mode, forcing the matching to put ‘stacks’ vs solos and players with massive gaps in the same match. Unless you want to wait forever and probably often not even finding games.

Imo the ‘best’ course of action now for MM(atleast before full release but preferably asap), is still to split the queues into for example:
Unranked MM
Level 5 requirement
Any lobby size, solo duo stacks all in same queue but with matching to make preferable matches ofc
Pretty much what the MM we have now, just make it unranked as it’s too random even if elo works better.
Ranked Solo/Duo
Level 10+
Own 3 mercs(outside of Aura+Sky)
Only Solo/Duo lobby, individual based elo/mmr matching with only other solo/duo players
Ranked Teams
Level 10+
Own 3 mercs(outside Aura+Sky)
Only 5 man lobby, team based elo/mmr matching with only other 5 man lobby
For now would just be the 5 mans but in the future when/if supported registered teams only

Right now this might cause longer waiting times, but over time(especially with full release creeping up and that hopefully meaning returning players and new players) it will sort itself out more. I think anyone playing MM okay with struggling to find games for a while if it means on longer term we have better matches.

(Glottis-3D) #11

Wrong ELO numbers.

I know guys who are gold 3 who are better than some cobalts, and i know gold 3 who are worse than silver.
We need to solve the ELO problem asap.

the thing is, i do not know the numbers, i could have help only if i knew the numbers.

(potty200) #12

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;537449]Wrong ELO numbers.

I know guys who are gold 3 who are better than some cobalts, and i know gold 3 who are worse than silver.
We need to solve the ELO problem asap.

the thing is, i do not know the numbers, i could have help only if i knew the numbers.[/QUOTE]

The more you play the higher rank you are. I only just got to gold 1. Seen some awful cobalts out there.

(MoonOnAStick) #13

True. There’s no reason one can’t nudge the difference distribution to take account of some underlying advantage for 4/5-man teams vs. solo queuing combos (dota does this, right?) But it’s an iterative process, so a little time is probably warranted.

Unranked MM
Level 5 requirement
Ranked Solo/Duo
Level 10+
Ranked Teams
Level 10+

Sounds like a good idea regardless of any current issues with ranking.

Edit: Love that Arrigo Sacchi quote, I’d never heard that before. Apposite.

(Szakalot) #14

three types of matchmaking, that sounds like too much. Especially since SD doesn’t look convinced that even two is a good idea.

(ZGToRRent) #15

Unranked MM is not really needed if algorythm is really searching for people on similar ranks. Bronzes will play against bronze/unrankeds, it’s just a matter of time.

(prophett) #16

Ranked twice in past few days :smiley:

#thesilverlife

(Szakalot) #17

that doesnt address premade vs solo queue problems

(DB Genome editor) #18

Maybe an overly simplistic suggestion, but how about bumping the average rank of a pre-made group to account for the expected better coordination and scaling that shift based on the group size? For instance, 2 Gold 5 playing as a group could be treated as Gold 4 by the MM, while a group of 5 averaging Gold 5 could be treated as say Gold 2 instead. So a complete team would end up being matched either with another full team of similar rank, a combination of smaller groups / solos of slightly higher rank, or a bunch of solos a couple of ranks higher.

(Szakalot) #19

that sounds like a simple solution that might just work!