Match Making? More like Mismatch Making.


(mti_) #1

If anyone has recently played “solo queue” MM I would assume they made similar experiences to me.
I realize that it isnt a small feat to design an elegant match making system that manages to account for all the different factors of skill this game has to offer. I also realize that the community is currently scary small and that you do not wish for people to get the feeling its dead by having to wait a long time for matches.
Quite frankly I would argue differently. I am more willing to wait 5-10 minutes to find a competitive game if it then turns out to be fun. There is a leaver penalty and no concede vote. Not everything Valve does has to be copied to the very last detail.
Currently I believe that two very key conditions are not implemented:

  1. It happens a whole lot that a group of 2/3 friends just made lvl 5 and want to give competitive MM a go. They will be (without fail) matched up against lvl 10+ and I can confidently report that there has not been a single “surprise” or upset. The games are a slaughterfest and I do not enjoy them (no matter if Im on the winning or losing team, I am not being challenged).
  2. A stack of 4/5 people (identified by clan tags) will go up against a team that is just randoms (usually without mics). Again I dont think I have ever really had the feeling that an upset was possible. This one is obviously an assumption as maybe the other team is a 4 stack as well but w/o tags.

These two conditions should be easy enough to implement and while they might hurt match making queue time a bit it would at least allow these lvl5 players to get an actual taste of what the game can be competitively rather than getting mowed down by rhinos in spawn.


(Szakalot) #2

tried to matchmake a good game today: out of 5 that managed to connect:

  • 2 were 6v4s that kicked us back to lobby
  • 2 were obvious stacks; myself plus 2+2 premades of lvl 13/14 against lvl5 n 6 in one game: after 3 min attacker’s started to leave, making us wait for 15min…; the other game: two of my teammates disconnected during warmup; leaving us to play 3v5
  • last game was with one of those lvl31 asian characters hackers, 15min defense, just counting time…

I think ill skip MM until some serious fixes are implemented:

  • report system
  • surrender/forfeit vote (would you rather people ended games quickly, or ragequitted after 3 min; making an abysmally boring game?
  • fix of the 6v4 bug

(mti_) #3

Not suggesting player level to be of much importance in the long run but on a short term it could help with all the brand new, unranked players.
It feels like the current match making system treats them as an utterly blank slate.
On the other hand I had the misfortune of going up against a full PkD stack some time ago and I highly doubt that we are anywhere close to these guys in rank either. Quality of games over speed of match making please.
Regarding the lobby issues it would seem that under some conditions your mates are not properly signed up after finishing a game and going for the next.
I have had the 4v6 a whole lot but just had a game where my mate got into a 4v6 lobby but mine was 5v5 and actually went ahead…


(mccrorie) #4

Lvl 5 is simply too low an entry barrier for ranked MM. First game I played I got stuck with two lvl 5 and a lvl 6 on terminal attacking side. They had no idea what to do as medics; frequently sprinting ahead of everyone else and dying first. They did not understand that when you kill several of the enemy players that that is a good time to push into courtyard and try to plant the wall. Anyway, not long after the match started the defenders blew the pump, and it was a **** fest from then on. I quit and just accepted the penalty. I don’t have that much time to waste on ridiculous matches.


(b0MP) #5

okay, so here is what i have to report on this issue:
I played with a friend and we started DB like a week ago, we went to go play ranked and we got matched against a 5 man stack that was ranked gold3 and above and we simply got baseraped twice in a row. I hope you guys can make a change on this because i realy enjoy your Game! Good Job so far, keep up the good work and i hope we will ejoy some realy fun and competitive play!

greetings b0MP


(spookify) #6

Can you get kick from a Ranked MM for going AFK?


(100percent) #7

I don’t believe they have any sort of ELO currently in the game.


(Glottis-3D) #8

a very bad sort. but yes they do have it


(INF3RN0) #9

Wait time for high ranks is just too short so you get put against the first available group regardless of rank. They should use a timed que based pooling system like Pixel suggested so that the higher ELO players will get matched against each other more often.


(Tanzverbot) #10

I’ve had that 5 times in a row now. I just don’t get the logic behind this system. Why not make it 5v5 and play? This is really mindboggingly stupid.


(shibbyuk) #11

So much is wrong with this picture…

For one thing, as I understand it, levels are completely ignored when it comes to competitive matchmaking. Allow me to re-iterate my suggestion that matches should be made on a combination of skill AND experience. Experience counts for a lot; you can be a highly skilled level 5 but still be unfamiliar with the ins-and-outs of the gameplay and maps.

Next, ranks seem to have been ignored too. I understand if there aren’t enough players to select a well-matched group of 10 players, but is there any explanation for the distribution of players across the 2 teams? I don’t believe they were a party of 5 but I could be wrong.

And finally, my rank. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t really care what my rank is - I don’t think I’m that vain (perhaps debatable) but it’s more the cause of it; because the match making is so bad, the ranks are becoming meaningless imho which is only, in turn, making the match-making even worse! Something needs to be sorted asap before it’s out of control. Again, taking level into account would help!



(Mustang) #12

Not sure about Roque Placo, but the others are definitely a 4, I think most likely they’re actually a 5.

Also considering account level wouldn’t help, the issue is more likely that they were searching for long enough to just be matching with the entire playerbase, so it just grabbed the first people it found.


(ZGToRRent) #13

I see nothing wrong on this picture, unrankeds will be forced to place, where they should play(Read bronze, silver).


(shibbyuk) #14

I believe you start off with “silver 1”, so we effectively have one team with 4 silvers, 1 gold, average level ~7, playing against 3 golds and 2 cobalts, average level ~13. You don’t think there’s anything wrong with that??


(ZGToRRent) #15

ELO will not gives you huge penalty because You played with people on higher tier. In my opinion algoritm should build teams based on average rank in team to make it very close.

The only thing I don’t like in MM is premade vs. solo team battle.


(shibbyuk) #16

Perhaps the only problem is the solo queue vs party queue. But whatever the cause, the problem is real. A game (that you aren’t allowed to leave) with an inevitable outcome is not my idea of fun!!

But I won’t be swayed on my opinion about levels. imho, it’s a better match-making indicator than the ranks are at the moment. The min level 10 servers, for example, are the best games I’ve had in DB.


(mti_) #17

This was my very first post on this forum. Nearly two months ago I was mad enough to finally make an account and vent my anger.
Its almost as if it was obvious that this would be one of the things that would massively hurt this game.
They can hotfix the Aura exploit which was known for a long time because reddit gets mad but when the community that isnt just an inflamed anti-hype train suggests things they take ages to make anything happen.
How god damn hard can it be to not give me a full 5 man stack when I solo queue?
How hard can it be to not give us lvl 5s and unrankeds when I play with my team?
How can it happen that my friend gets a full sweaty cobalt stack in her very first MM? You really think Ill ever get her to play this again?
You dont have to come out with the most glorious MM system ever right out the gate but at least implement some basic functionality and fail safes.
If sick6 wants to sign up they should have to wait half an hour or more even until someone comes along who can actually remotely compete. Long queue times at top level is not a problem that can be solved by just putting any old game together. Even CSGO with their player numbers have that problem. Its on those top players to get the idea that maybe its time to find scrims on IRC. Right now your channel is completely dead because its easier for them to sign up in game and trash some lvl5s.
Get your **** together, you had all the time and input in the world.
How is someone who isnt as invested in this game supposed to put up with your **** if even I really have had it now?


(spookify) #18

[QUOTE=mti_;536750]This was my very first post on this forum. Nearly two months ago I was mad enough to finally make an account and vent my anger.
Its almost as if it was obvious that this would be one of the things that would massively hurt this game.
They can hotfix the Aura exploit which was known for a long time because reddit gets mad but when the community that isnt just an inflamed anti-hype train suggests things they take ages to make anything happen.
How god damn hard can it be to not give me a full 5 man stack when I solo queue?
How hard can it be to not give us lvl 5s and unrankeds when I play with my team?
How can it happen that my friend gets a full sweaty cobalt stack in her very first MM? You really think Ill ever get her to play this again?
You dont have to come out with the most glorious MM system ever right out the gate but at least implement some basic functionality and fail safes.
If sick6 wants to sign up they should have to wait half an hour or more even until someone comes along who can actually remotely compete. Long queue times at top level is not a problem that can be solved by just putting any old game together. Even CSGO with their player numbers have that problem. Its on those top players to get the idea that maybe its time to find scrims on IRC. Right now your channel is completely dead because its easier for them to sign up in game and trash some lvl5s.
Get your **** together, you had all the time and input in the world.
How is someone who isnt as invested in this game supposed to put up with your **** if even I really have had it now?[/QUOTE]

How would you solve the 5 team Pre-Mades and separate the Solo Que Players all the while giving everyone a equal match?


(spookify) #19

Algorithm

What if a High ELO 5 Pre-Made team Ques all Cobalt Rank

  • Click Boom Start the Timer.

Minutes 1 - 5 = looks for other premade teams with or around the same ELO within a specific %

Minutes 6 - 7 = Grabs 5 solo que players with ELO within a specific %

Minutes 8 - 10 = Grabs whoever (Team or Solo) it can with a specific % (High Golds) and Makes a match

Minutes 11+ = Grabs whatever it can with a very small % ELO and places higher ELO team on Attackers First

What if a High ELO player Ques at Cobalt Rank

  • Click Boom Start the Timer.

Minutes 1 - 5 = looks for other Cobalt players with or around the same ELO within a specific %

Minutes 6 - 7 = Grabs 5 solo que players with ELO within a specific % and matches them againt pre-made teams.

Minutes 8 - 10 = Grabs whoever (Team or Solo) it can with a specific % (High Golds) and Makes a match

Minutes 11+ = Grabs whatever it can with a very small % ELO and places higher ELO team on Attackers First (The hire team will have have the high cobalt)

Note: 1 - 11 are all compounding

It sucks to wait and its sucks not to play.
A person or Premade can do two things after 11 Minutes:
#1) Cancel a restart the timer in hopes to get a more equal match where the ELO reward or loss is greater.
#2) Let it right because you just want to rage some faces! Low ELO reward and not fun for the other team but you are attacking first so map should be over fast.

The Problem with this getting to 11+ minutes the lower skilled players are all matching very quickly between the 1 - 10 minute mark leaving no matches for you to fill… How do you solve this!!! I have solo que’d for 40 minutes and just gave up. Today I que’d for 25 minutes and gave up. The parties are forming below me and I can not get grouped in.

SD is working on this and I wish them luck. The above is just an example to get the idea’s flowing on solving a wide range of skill plus pre-mades!

Thanks
-spookify

Whats your guyz ideas?


(montheponies) #20

Same frustrations tonight - my simple short term, open beta, solution - turn off party creation. By removing that, you’ll do a couple of things;

a. it’ll throw everyone into one big(ger) pool - selection and formation of balanced teams is now using everyone rather than being hamstrung by 5 cobalts on the one side.
b. folk really interested in playing competitively can organise scrims via IRC, steam, mumble, teamspeak, smoke signals - whatever, not difficult.

For a. a moderation may be to limit to 2 players, so you and a pal can play, but a fully stacked team can’t.
For b. SD need to provide a far better private server model.

Unlikely for this to be implemented, but that’s the only way I can see this working in the short term - even in the long term how can you trust ranks if they are generated whilst playing with such imbalances that premades introduce?