I do hope that more fragger nerfs are still coming.

(ragnak) #1

I remember when SD didnt want to nerf fragger because echo overloard said so, but 4 (or more) nerfs later he is still the strongest merc in the game.

He is still main pick for every comp team on every map and side. There still isnt a single thing he isnt good at.

Back in the day i heard how we should wait for more mercs because there will be some that counter him, yet here we are and there isnt a single merc that “counter” fragger in any way, shape or form. He is also still the easiest merc to play in the game (rhino can somehow rival him but at least rhino needs to stand in a correct place lol).

I guess a lot of people will defend him, like they did 4 nerfs ago but in my honest opinion he needs more nerf (i am fine with k101 now at least, even tho i didnt like the way it was nerfed).

I would personally hit his hp or/and grenades (those are still insane, just slighly less). Im not a fan of slowing game down so suggesting speed nerf isnt something i would do :<.

-10hp would be a decent start (maybe even enough), and i still think that he needs to cook his grenade longer (one more “tick”).

Anyone else think that he still outperform other mercs or am i alone at this ?

(Szakalot) #2

If nerf is required I’d keep it limited to his nades. His guns are fine, LMG even got overnerfed (id rather nades were a lot weaker, but LMG went back on one 10% spread increase nerf)

(ragnak) #3

I am fine with his weapons as well, but i do think that he have too much hp and his grenades are still way too easy to use. Either way i do hope something happens to him, kinda tired of fragger being a king for months.

(Szakalot) #4

I’d like to see Thunder come out and see how he shakes things up. Though, unless he is (almost) immune to his own flashbangs, I don’t see him being ever picked over fragger.

Should Fragger still remain king of mercs, a cook-time increase like you suggest, or further decrease in nade-fly speed would be my preferred nerfs.

I’d rather not touch Nade’s damage anymore.

(prophett) #5

Could try reducing his nades to 1

(ragnak) #6

That would at least solve the problem “do he have 2 nades ? should i rush him ?”. Even with nade nerf i would still like him to have 10 hp less but that can be debatable.

(jazevec) #7

I won’t be surprised if Thunder doesn’t come out at all.

+10 health to survive a sniper headshot, that’s nice. But the ability just can’t rival a frag grenade. Frags kill people outright, they destroy deployables, mines, turrets, healing stations, damage objectives. They solve all problems, really. The flashbang doesn’t last all that long, and to really benefit from it you need to attack enemy immediately after explosion. This is not always easy, enemies can be behind cover, on higher ground, or just run and hide. Teammates can gang up on weakened enemies, but a frag would also make them vulnerable to this.

Basically, show me a situation where a flashbang would work better than a normal grenade. Even against groups with medics, a frag might not kill and gib them, but it’s hard to make a case that a flasbang would. “Somewhat good against groups with medics who are not Aura” is not amazing. And when Turtle comes out, frags will be even better.

(Erkin31) #8

Not sure that is a good idea. The grenade is the real fun element of the gameplay of Fragger, any nerf on it could impact a lot the enjoyment of the character.
A reduce of the HP would be better for me.

(Szakalot) #9

[QUOTE=Erkin31;532063]Not sure that is a good idea. The grenade is the real fun element of the gameplay of Fragger, any nerf on it could impact a lot the enjoyment of the character.
A reduce of the HP would be better for me.[/QUOTE]

sure its fun to instagib multiple opponents. Atm. it (still) feels like grenades are so powerful they should be given to a random average merc with no ability (i.e. grenadier) rather than an already beefy slayer.

(dlul) #10

Fragger being the first pick to make frags is normal. It’s his job.
The K121 with increased spread isn’t really good from mid range and further.
Nader is almost as effective anyway, so after nerfing fragger more everybody would just play nader and you’d come back whining about nader being op and martyrdom being lame etc
What is sad is seeing snipers with more kills than fraggers while they just sit on their asses at the other side of the map…

(ragnak) #11

[QUOTE=dlul;532207]Fragger being the first pick to make frags is normal. It’s his job.
The K121 with increased spread isn’t really good from mid range and further.
Nader is almost as effective anyway, so after nerfing fragger more everybody would just play nader and you’d come back whining about nader being op and martyrdom being lame etc
What is sad is seeing snipers with more kills than fraggers while they just sit on their asses at the other side of the map…[/QUOTE]

Rhino is also only ment to kill, but he doesnt work everywhere and need support to be good, unlike fragger.

Nader while annoying is still worse at clearing rooms than fragger, is easier to take out, harder to use and have weaker primary. (i wouldnt mind +1sec cd to her grenades tho).

Moa needs a nerf, i even saw people that actually play a lot of vassili say that, what people didnt like about last reverted nerf was the fact that it made it less fun to use which i agree on (same goes for every accuracy nerf, stahp sd). I would probably push for moa to deal 50 damage to body (while still one headshotting everyone till 150hp), unless they take away machine pistol from his secondary weapons. Nerf like that would at least give fel a place becuause i dont want fel to one shot light merc, ever again.

All in all, fragger is the only merc that is good at every map/phase/side, unlike pretty much every other merc.

(dlul) #12

Rhino is basically useless so let’s not talk about him.

I agree with most of your points. But, why change something that currently works ?

Well there’s only one thing i’d like to see for fragger: modify how the radius of his nades is done.
Currently it feels like either you get instagibbed or you barely take damage. In other games when you take a nade full face you die, but the damage decreases gradually in the radius. I prefer that. It would require more skill for the fragger to throw his grenades, and also it would allow evading for the opponents when they see it coming (so more rewarding aswell)

But before that i’d like to see the old revive system + less bullets needed to gib (stops revive trains without breaking the medic, and also balances sparks ability). And sniper 1 hs kill but not gib. Maybe juste one bullet more for the gib but at least give a chance for the medic to try and revive. Instagibbing is just going against teamplay. :frowning:

But before that i’d like to see team damage and spawntimes without 2 second delays and classical tapout :frowning:

(spookify) #13

People will always find the most OP player or the most OP Gun.
Fragger is fun to play and in the right hands can carry. If you take fragger out then people will use another class to kill. Remember Fragger is a killing class. That is what he is build for and it seems to be working fine.

In a well balanced Ranked MM game if he doesnt have a medic he is very hard to use. Yes you can get a few nade kills and help your team out but he really shines when a good Sawbones is following him.

I think he is fine. A few other classes need to be buffed to help counter him. Example: Arty should be buffed a little. A good sniper can also own a fragger because he is so slow and fat…

Fragger in the hands of a good player though is a must!

Killing! Over and over and over and over and over is how you win in DB!

The small maps, no death penalty, fast engy defuses make this game very unforgiving. Sooo if you can kill and stay alive its an easy win…

(ragnak) #14

Because it works too good, to say it simply. I dont ask for huge nerfs, lets start with -10hp and/or a bit longer cooktime (i prefer to both of them hit him but i could deal with only -10hp).

I honestly think he isnt far off from balanced now but you can still feel that he is above every other merc and a really safe pick.

I simply think he is badly designed, you dont give super strong combat ability on a merc that is super strong without it. Thunder wouldnt probably bother me half as much because his ability is more of a support ability than combat one.

(montheponies) #15

Fragger is the best merc at killing for most situations. Not rocket science as that’s his role. Don’t particularly agree that he is so powerful that a decent skyhammer or arty cant take him on. Further nerfing of nades is just backwards thinking - it takes a fun and choke breaking element and removes in the name of balance…

If you want to remove things from him, take away his ability to self heal and remove ammo crates from maps. Make him rely more on the other classes (ie LT and Medic).

(Szakalot) #16

promoted here nade-nerfs would not affect the choke breaking element in the slightest (longer cooktime, even still slower nades)

(kenpokiller) #17

I kill fraggers with Aura/Sparks

Nerf Rhino
Buff Fraggers burst weapon, give it a damn automatic setting already xD

(ZGToRRent) #18

The only Fragger nerf I would like to see is grenade damage radius, it should be lower(10%?) and maybe +5sec to grenade cooldown, nothing more. Actually every merc can fight against fragger easily if You have good method.

(NeroKirbus) #19

[QUOTE=kenpokiller;532317]I kill fraggers with Aura/Sparks

Nerf Rhino
Buff Fraggers burst weapon, give it a damn automatic setting already xD[/QUOTE]

why not use the m4 then? It’s ridiculous on Fragger and he receives good augments from the best m4 card (unshakeable and explodydendron). the M4 is capable in every situation to boot as well.

(jazevec) #20

You know what would make Fragger’s life quite a bit harder ? Friendly fire. When friendly fire is enabled, it will be a nice indirect nerf to fraggers, skyhammers, naders, perhaps even Rhino.