What would be your last-minute switch to the loadout system?


(Szakalot) #1

Several people expressed/keep expressing their disappointment with the loadout card system. Indisputably the P2W argument can be thrown out the window, its very easy now to get a specific loadout you want at bronze level, and everything above is all new skins&rep.

What is your last-minute loadout change idea? Consider that the game is not far from release, and no P2W mechanics will be followed thru!

At the moment loadouts are in a limbo-trap, while not distinctive enough to warrant any P2W drama, also not powerful enough to force gamestyle choices on the player. There is no consideration of 'this loadout will help me on defense vs. this loadout will allow me to be more mobile. In almost all cases, loadouts power is determined by:
a) the primary & secondary weapons
b) one/two particularly useful augments, that will always be preferable over alternatives (get up for a medic, AoE buff for explosive mercs, plus some general all-rounders: faster reload, reload while sprinting, springy, etc.)
This polarizes the choices very easily, with one/two loadouts (depending on the weapons) being useful above everything else.

Imo, the augments themselves could all be brought up to the power similar to ‘get-up’ loadout - significant changes to your capabilities in-game.

However, in order for powerful augments to provide distinctive gamestyle choices, augments themselves have to also be limited in availability.
What I’m proposing is utilizing the already presentloadout classes, but forcing more diversification by putting the best loadouts against each other.

The only reason ‘get-up’ might be a reconsidered choice for a medic, is putting it against equally useful loadouts: significantly more medpacks, or significantly faster regen upon medpack hit.

The first focus of such diversification is a merc-specific augment choice. The choice made here could be almost significant enough to make sub-classes out of a particular merc.

In almost all cases this can be simply a matter of : more spam vs. more powerful spam + a new approach to the merc’s gamestyle. Ideas are cheap though, so lets think of some examples:

Sawbonez:

  • get-up - the most combat-oriented perk
  • more potent packs (at least +50% faster regen) - much more efficient at regrouping
  • better cooldown (at least one more medpack, at least 30% better cooldown) - much better at prolonged engagements.
  • ET-style medpacks : each picked up medpack gives +20-30hp, regardless of the already on-going regeneration - for that medpack-bunkering feel.

Aura:

  • get-up - the most combat-oriented perk
  • considerably higher Aura’s AoE radius - ‘bunker Aura’ - station has a radius big enough to allow sheltering the station from direct enemy-fire
  • lower AoE radius but faster station setup. - ‘offensive’ aura - station can be plonked down quickly (similar to before the nerf) to allow Aura to remain very mobile with her station, during the battle

Skyhammer:

  • +AoE - explosives from airstrikes deal more damage/bigger radius
  • better cooldown - airstrikes can be called in much more regularly
  • faster drone - airstrike bombs fall down faster, giving people less time to escape (might require slowing down the default airstrike speed)
  • more potent in-door grenade: airstrike marker used indoors with a shorterfuse/bigger boom
  • gadget ammo-packs: picked up ammo pack gives a weapon bonus to the player: more ammo in the clip, better spread, better RoF, little bit of everything?

Vassili:

  • significantly better range on the heartbeat sensor pulse and/or significantly longer detection pulse - ‘spotter vassili’
  • faster switch to secondary after firing a sniper-shot ‘close quarters vassili’
  • less sway while scoped-in ‘snipey vassili’
  • two heartbeat sensors at once?

Rhino:

  • more accurate minigun (spread drops slower during sustained fire) - the medium distance rhino
  • faster spin-up + longer till overheating - ‘sustained fire rhino’ for holding chokes
  • faster movement when firing - ‘mobile rhino’

I can come up with more/different ideas for other mercs, the main point being, that each choice is ‘sooo good’ it no longer becomes obvious which one is the best.

Are you going to pick an Aura with a LARGE hp-station radius, for a very useful bunker in a particular spot on the map, or maybe you’d like to be mobile with your team, re-positioning the station constantly, keeping the opponent on their toes? Would you prefer to fire the sniper shot and instantly finish the enemy with the machine-pistol, or do you rely on as little sway as possible, to reliably score headshots? Or maybe you can utilize the uber-powerful heartbeat sensor, to keep 80% of enemy team in constant detection?

Having to make a single choice like this, the mercs gamestyle is already pushed in one direction. This choice would always be available at ‘lead’ level, allowing people to experiment with the main branches of the merc’s playstyle.

Second choice is the second most powerful perk, relating to the general utility of the player during and inbetween combat.

Things like:

  • faster reload
  • reload while sprinting
  • quick-eye + focus (this two would have to merge together to remain viable in this group)
  • unshakeable
  • quick slash + chopper - for a melee monster character
    or
  • twice as fast help-up
  • ‘unbeatable’ - character requires two knife slashes to gib
  • enigma + untrackable
  • springy + flying pig
  • sneaky + big ears + bomb squad
  • quickdraw + faster switch to/from ADS
  • armor piercing: conventional weapons do 100% more damage to EV and secondary objectives

Again, the goal is to force the player to make choices by putting viable options against each other. Quick eye, or focus, on their own, can never compete with faster reload. But would you rather reload your weapon faster, or receive less damage from explosives?
Furthermore, choices can be also limited by allowing only a sub-set of such perks available to the particular class. For example, Assault classes can have faster reload, or quick-eye+focus; but not unshakeable, Snipers can have unshakeable but not quick-eye+focus, etc.

The third perk would include all those perks that are nice to have, but don’t really affect gameplay that much, things like:

  • pack-rat: ammo pack stations give ammo twice as fast
  • cool
  • looter
  • try hard
  • mechanic (yup, its not that useful in comp; where engies do 90% of the job anyways)
  • tough (yup, its nice, but won’t make a big difference in the end)

a) picking a merc-specific perk gives a feel of more diversity. Gives you more distinct ways to play a particular merc - it also allows for dividing the skin-types according to the merc sub-classes.
b) by separating the perks according to their power-level you force meaningful this-or-that choices on the player
c) a system where multiple options are viable and worth experimenting with open up the game to:

  • crafting specific loadout cards, without pushing towards a stale-meta where a single loadout-type is better & above-all-else
  • trading between players ‘i crafted this cool merc, but now want to try sth else’
  • separating primary/secondary weapons from the perks

(Humbugsen) #2

I would like if loadouts would help you specializing a certain playstyle.
Some cards are too much “must-have” at the moment. The sawbonez silver getup, mechanic, potentpacks for example.

To achieve this maybe the perks could come with a downside?
Get up - 50% more revive hp, but also 50% longer time to charge up completely. quick revives give more hp, but charging up is less effective.
Potent packs - 50% faster regen, but also 50% longer ability cooldown.

should be easier to balance over time and help people to support their playstyle?!


(BioSnark) #3

I’d like customization. For example:

[ul]
[li]5 augment points when building each card.
[/li][li]Augments each have a point value based on how powerful they are.
[/li][li]Handicap augments have a negative point value.
[/li][li]Cosmetics slots*.
[/li][li]Weapon slots**.
[/li][li]Single use grenade or gadget slot***.
[/li][li]Recycle high level preset or custom cards to get an augment/skin/weapon/grenade from them for card building.
[/li][/ul]

*skin/model, hat, highlight colors, etc. special cosmetics can be purchased.
**possibly also on a point system since some of these are not balanced.
***frag, emp, smoke, plasma shield, etc.

I don’t find anything fun or exciting about the current customization and progression systems. It’s slowly gathering points for or, at exorbitant prices, buying classes and pulls on a slot machine full of unexciting payouts. Players don’t even have the agency to stop the slot machine’s scrolling when it passes over something marginally useful. It’s purely a waste-of-time animation.


(-PogS-) #4

I already brought the idea of drawbacks and I still think more powerful augments with drawbacks in return would make building your Merc really fun. I too would like a flexible system like you suggest But i’m not sure about the grenade slot.
I am not fond of the idea of locking slots to specific perks as Szakalot suggests. In fact I would like to have open slots where you could take any augment. This way you could diversify your Merc even more. I don’t like the idea to be compelled to have a medic fully dedicated for example. Sawbonez is already good at medic and he could shine in other areas using Augments. This way you could build the Merc that suits the best to your playstyle.


(Szakalot) #5

the problem with open slots is that with some augments better than others, everyone will gravitate towards the ‘most optimal’ build. Just like in brink, where with huge amount of customization to both weapons and mercs, everyone gravitated towards a single setup (light merc with high RoF high ammo-capacity guns)


(Zenity) #6

I’ll be that guy again. I actually like how it is now. I don’t want the loadouts to have too much impact, that’s what merc choice is for. Adding another layer of complexity, and choosing loadouts based on situational requirements, does not seem appealing to me at all.

It feels good to have a loadout that has perks that fit my preferences, but I also enjoy knowing that it ultimately doesn’t matter.


(Szakalot) #7

[QUOTE=Zenity;530112]I’ll be that guy again. I actually like how it is now. I don’t want the loadouts to have too much impact, that’s what merc choice is for. Adding another layer of complexity, and choosing loadouts based on situational requirements, does not seem appealing to me at all.

It feels good to have a loadout that has perks that fit my preferences, but I also enjoy knowing that it ultimately doesn’t matter.[/QUOTE]

Its at the very least worth separating the perks via their impact on gameplay, as some are clearly better than others


(BioSnark) #8

[QUOTE=Zenity;530112]I’ll be that guy again. I actually like how it is now. I don’t want the loadouts to have too much impact, that’s what merc choice is for. Adding another layer of complexity, and choosing loadouts based on situational requirements, does not seem appealing to me at all.

It feels good to have a loadout that has perks that fit my preferences, but I also enjoy knowing that it ultimately doesn’t matter.[/QUOTE]

I’d love to agree except you’re already limited to bringing 3 1-trick ponies to the circus. Changing how a pony does its trick alters how you can predict the outcome of seeing another fellow’s pony, which is an obvious negative. However, it doesn’t change how many situations your ponies can adapt to since you still bring 3 and they still only know one trick.
:magicpony:
My problem with the current system is that it is that layer of complexity that makes cooking up a merc with a decent gun and perks more effort but it adds nothing positive to the taste.


(Protekt1) #9

Easy - removing skins from loadout cards and making them select separately.

Also, no to the customization of loadout cards. It is better how it is right now. Much more balanced and more actual choice involved. Under full customization there will be basically a single set of optimal choices. Under this system they have a lot more leeway and can make more augment powers in the future knowing they won’t be in any kind of OP combination.


(-PogS-) #10

The thing is you seem to think that augment that improve your class such explodydendron, Get up ,etc. are more worthy than others but I don’t necessarily share this opinion. This is a matter of your gameplay style. I you revive fully charged, get up is useless for example. 10% larger aoe, is that so powerful ?
Another example, to me mechanic is really a great augment, versatile and I would like to have the possibility to get it on every merc.
Of course most players would choose augments that improve their class specific abilities but I’d like to try other ways :slight_smile:


(Szakalot) #11

This is what SD would like to believe as well, but is clearly wrong.

Augments that are useful all the time are much better than augments that are useful occasionally. If you revive fully-charged get-up is useless?!? Isnt the whole point that you dont have to fully charge up defibs, and can VERY QUICKLY bring few people back up to 100%? Get-up is probably the strongest perk in the game atm.

10% better AoE means that you get 10% more AoE kills (roughly). Would you rather be 10% more deadly, or be able to stay on an mg a little longer? Same with unshakeable, or reload - all these augments are making a difference at all times, making them wayyyy more useful than a ‘single-use’ augment, like mechanic or tryhard. Mechanic sounds nice on paper, but most of these jobs will be done by engies in your team, so it doesnt really matter.

Saem with toughness: it can be useful on pubs - once in a while - but you are much better off with /kill at the end of the spawnwave, and get more ammo regardless.

Another example, to me mechanic is really a great augment, versatile and I would like to have the possibility to get it on every merc.
Of course most players would choose augments that improve their class specific abilities but I’d like to try other ways :slight_smile:

most of the other stuff doesn’t make a difference either: untrackable, looter, sneaky, big ears, bomb squad; these are ‘fancy gimmicks’ but in the end very inconsequential, and scale even worse with better play.

and above all: loadouts will never be interesting when they try to balance them with weapons, as some weapons are clearly better than others (crotzni > smg ; m4 > timik, moa > felix); +having machine-pistol secondary is much better than pistols; thus people’s choices will usually have little to do with the loadouts. ‘i have these cool perks here, but im never gonna try it cause the secondary weapon sucks’


(jazevec) #12

//youtu.be/aCbfMkh940Q


(-PogS-) #13

+50% HP on revive means 60 instead of 40 for a quick revive. I am not sure that makes a real difference in term of efficiency and survivability. Ok you will get more XP for the Heal. 20 XP more. But most of the time when I quick revive I instadrop a health pack just after.

Regarding mechanic, to me this single augment can make a real difference between a lost game and a won one. Sometimes as a healer you can be the last survivor of a teamfight and be able to defuse or repair fast is a good thing. Defusing and repairing is a team action, You are seldom able to defuse or repair in one time. And if you can it is because the enemy team has been wiped out and being en engie does not matter then cause you have plenty of time.And engies are primary targets when it comes to killing near objectives.

All is a matter of taste of course and that is for the good of the game. Individual preferences rule. That is what I ask. Individual choice.

Crotzni is good but Blishlok too imo. Both are good. and Hochfir is deadly in the hand of a Proxy.

Eventhough their loadouts system is not perfect because it’s not flexible but it has a major good point : no augments and no weapon are op. Their usefulness is small so it does not gives you a real competitive advantage. You skilll and teamwork will prevail over that. That is why I would suggest stronger augments with drawbacks to further specialize your merc if you want to.


(PixelTwitch) #14

my last min change would be pressing delete on it all.

I would prefer to have nothing loadout based when compared to the monstrosity we have now.
Despise it…

makes me sad :frowning: