Why do so many players not push


(Violator) #1

There are two things that new players won’t do -
Stick together
Push

As a result when I’m placed on such a team it is frustrating being the only player who is prepared to move forward and / or stick with their team. CoD mentality? Not sure but its getting very annoying :(. When speccing other players they will be slowly edging and creeping around - this is a FAST paced game, sneaking around at a snails pace isn’t going to work. I guess some new players don’t know the objectives perhaps but move out of your own spawn :(.


(PixelTwitch) #2

Few reasons for this…

1, Majority of FPS games released recently encourage you to try and live.
2, In general modern games punish movement.
3, Poor explanation from the developers.
4, Long respawn times.
5, Lack of confidence.
6, Always someone else’s job.


(mccrorie) #3

Yes, all of the above. And just a general lack of understanding of the classes. Can’t count how many times medics have rushed out in front of me and died first when I’m playing an assault class. Or the opposite happens; fops and fragger players hanging around right at the back, which has the effect of dragging medics backwards too.


(Bloodbite) #4

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;528900]Few reasons for this…

1, Majority of FPS games released recently encourage you to try and live.
2, In general modern games punish movement.
3, Poor explanation from the developers.
4, Long respawn times.
5, Lack of confidence.
6, Always someone else’s job.[/QUOTE]

I blame their parents


(Neo_TA) #5

new people always try and do stuff alone “solo heroes” and its annoying when u have played this game long as i have and they dont listen on mic or in chat its like talking to a wall so yea…


(Glottis-3D) #6

the majority cant be wrong, right? mb we all should not push? mb it is the wrong way to play!


(shibbyuk) #7

Also, it takes a while to learn the maps. Particularly as there is still no way to practise!


(Violator) #8

+1 for Pixel’s points.

Also the amount of times teams will just continue to rush through one chokepoint to the end of time when they do decide to push. A good example is the barrier room on Bridge. It can be broken by flanking round the back but players will just keep rushing down the small alley and into the room to be slaughtered. The maps are pretty linear but there’s usually a couple of ways through a particular choke (four in this case - slaughter alley, under the big arch, left and into the road, left and up the steps).


#9

[QUOTE=Violator;528918]+1 for Pixel’s points.

Also the amount of times teams will just continue to rush through one chokepoint to the end of time when they do decide to push. A good example is the barrier room on Bridge. It can be broken by flanking round the back but players will just keep rushing down the small alley and into the room to be slaughtered. The maps are pretty linear but there’s usually a couple of ways through a particular choke (four in this case - slaughter alley, under the big arch, left and into the road, left and up the steps).[/QUOTE]

Or just throw a ton of explosives on the generator to take it down. Once the EV is at the barrier, it can no longer be repaired.
Anyway, this is completely offtopic.

You guys seem to forget this is PUB. People are just messing around, getting to know the game, working on their shooting skills, learning the map. Winning is irrelevant. More experienced players usually choose not to be the one solo ‘hero’ rushing the objective and healing teammates deep in enemy territory. They have done it million times in the past and know it will only result in them getting slayed without covering fire by teammates or the player they revived will end up being afk or just generally useless and die again…
If you are so interested in teamwork, join a team, start doing pugs and participate in cups.


(Loffy) #10

I think it is a “It’s much safer to cash in frags from the rear/a distance and even though I understand that it is cool and nice if my team wins I only play for myself not for others”-upbringing/mentality. Plus the fact that they have never played or have little experience from fast-paces games.

On a sidenote, sometimes when it’s just 1 minute left, some of these players become a little more aggressive in their playing style, i.e. move a little forward and gain terrain. It’s as if they think “I need to get a little closer, to get the final frags” :slight_smile:


(warbie) #11

[QUOTE=Violator;528899]There are two things that new players won’t do -
Stick together
Push[/QUOTE]

The maps and spawn times don’t encourage this. The best RTCW and ET maps had players spawning in batches with their teammates and choke point focussed maps that funnelled these teams into each other. The maps that didn’t work well in RTCW and ET play out similarly to those in DB with spawning sending players to vague front line in ones and twos. This has been the main problem since day one.


(Anti) #12

I think a big issue, that Pixel touched on, is that we don’t ever teach players how to play. We teach them how the mechanics and controls work in the tutorial, but we don’t teach them to ‘push behind your Fragger’, ‘push as a group’, ‘as a Medic follow your assault type Mercs’ etc.

I’m hoping over time we can do a lot more to teach players how to use the mechanics to get the most out of them, rather than just how to use the controls.

In the mean time this absolutely feels like an opportunity for community power to help solve the problem (something I think the LoL community did really well when that game had similar issues). Any sort of videos or guides for things like team composition, Mercs roles, styles of play, trick jumps, tactics plus aiming and movement techniques would be super useful to educate new players coming into the game. I imagine they’d get plenty of views too :wink:


(Humbugsen) #13

this.
+
-maps and objectives
The objectives should be fun and exciting like spawnflags and docruns in ET were. The objectives in DB like repairing the EV and delivering are a real pain and no fun at all in my opinion.
They require you to be really stational and in a 8v8 pub it’s pretty much a safe death. They feel like such a grind instead of fun.
Also if I realize the other team is better or it’s not working there should be a tactical alternative other than switching mercs at least for the first objective.
On terminal defenders can even block the tunnel, the only alternative route (that still leads to the same point though). Seen so many ragequits on this map, because there is literally nothing to do but run out of spawn and get killed.

-basic mechanics
Different merc speeds make it harder to stick together and gets even worse, because you run faster with the knife.
The spawn system, where you can press space to deploy whenever you want, instead of spawning together and push as a team.

  • player education
    The gamemode description is hardly understandable. Some more information, maybe just a simple video, for new players would be great

(Szakalot) #14

[QUOTE=Anti;528930]I think a big issue, that Pixel touched on, is that we don’t ever teach players how to play. We teach them how the mechanics and controls work in the tutorial, but we don’t teach them to ‘push behind your Fragger’, ‘push as a group’, ‘as a Medic follow your assault type Mercs’ etc.

I’m hoping over time we can do a lot more to teach players how to use the mechanics to get the most out of them, rather than just how to use the controls.

In the mean time this absolutely feels like an opportunity for community power to help solve the problem (something I think the LoL community did really well when that game had similar issues). Any sort of videos or guides for things like team composition, Mercs roles, styles of play, trick jumps, tactics plus aiming and movement techniques would be super useful to educate new players coming into the game. I imagine they’d get plenty of views too :wink:[/QUOTE]

Give me in-game replays I’ll give you tutorials for each merc : )


(Szakalot) #15

naah, same thing happened in both these games.

I agree with Humbug that its more about the objectives, rather than the chokes themselves.


(Zenity) #16

You always get roughly three kinds of players on pubs:

  1. The new player, who doesn’t know the game well enough yet to make correct decisions. They won’t push because they won’t know how or why yet.

  2. The intermediate player, who has learned enough about the game to know the how and why, and feels very enthusiastic about applying that knowledge in game.

  3. The veteran player, who gets their teamplay fix from actual team matches and only joins pubs for warm-up or aim practice. There is literally nothing you can do to make these players care about the objective or their team. Of course half the time they will still make your team win, just by their sheer number of kills.

If you really want to improve quality of life on public servers, the only things I could imagine to make a real difference are to

a) provide better tutorials and learning modes for the first type of player, and only mix them up with the main population once they have reached a certain level of competence and

b) provide an alternative mode for veterans to get their warm-up / aim practice fix. People don’t seem to like the idea of a brainless deathmatch mode, but this is exactly why we should have one. Ideally with random spawns that constantly put you in front of other players, like the CSGO deathmatch mode, and don’t even record team score. Make it clear that it’s not a “real” mode but only for practice and warmup.

Of course even with that, people will mostly play for themselves on pubs, probably more interested in topping the score boards and earning credits than anything else. The only place where you will find real teamplay (more often than not) is ranked matchmaking, where players will mostly care about winning to improve their rank.


(Szakalot) #17

People always underestimate how important it is to have those killers on pubs. You definitely can’t count on any teamplay on pubs, so on average everyone is just running around doing their own thing. Therefore, killing > all.

It only takes one person doing the objective, and the rest of your team destroying the opponents. People say ‘my team only cares about kills’ - when everyone is dying left and right, so there is nobody throwing ammo/health at you, etc.


(Mustang) #18

I don’t agree with Zenity’s terms of:
caring = intermediate player
not caring = veteran player

I really believe it’s:
caring = all players that want the game to succeed and to grow a community, including both intermediates and veterans
not caring = dicks

That said, it’s more often that new players will usually cost games, whereas with dicks it’s to a lesser extent. So I find it more a knowledge/confidence/skill/communication problem.


(Zenity) #19

If veterans cared more about the game than themselves they would not go on publics in the first place, because they will inevitably upset the team balance and create a rather sub-par experience for the other team. As Szakalot pointed out, most people complain about lack of teamplay when their team is simply being outgunned, which is usually the result of a veteran player on the other team.

But it’s a bit much to ask veterans never to go to publics, when there are no alternatives for warm up or aim practice.


(Glottis-3D) #20

this very forum is filled with veterans, who care about objectives, teamplay and winning.