Improving the long jump.


(PixelTwitch) #1

Currently the outcome of a long jump attempt is binary, what I mean by this is you manage to pull it off or it fails and you jump vertically in the air. I am writing this post to suggest that providing the key combo was executed (Shift + Crouch Tap + Jump) the long jump should activate. Obviously if you are within the long jump cooldown period then it should not but if your just attempted the jump a few milliseconds to early still do the long jump but with only a force equivalent to how close you was to a full long jump.

Example would be, if I quickly tapped all the keys in succession I would get normal vertical jump + 1% of the long jump boost. The closer I am to the full long jump time the higher the percentage of boost I get. The problem currently is just tapping a few milliseconds to early prevents you from starting a movement trick or jumping into/out of a fight. Not only does it prevent you it punishes you greatly to the point that it often leads to instant death or spending a lot more time having to reset after a failed jump.

The three main outcomes this would have is…
1, More reliability when entering or leaving a fight.
2, Ability to almost perform a side dodge using the long jump.
3, Higher adoption of the long jump ability.

The reason why I say higher adoption is simple. I have spoken to a lot of people who claim they do not use it cause they keep messing it up or it gets them killed. Since the only way to practice it is actually during a fight or in a live server currently, most people are just ignoring it.

On a side note, I would also like to see the spread punishment slightly reduced for long jumps. Entering a fight with a well timed jump should be rewarded and not punished. Especially because when you land your speed is punished anyway, so it already balances out in my opinion.

Anyway, that’s my suggestion, what do you guys think?


(DarkangelUK) #2

Said all this years ago (but more towards movement and trickingin general), there’s no degrees of success to the movement, you either land it or you don’t. Was told adding anything more would be too confusing to dunce gamers and there’s no way to properly get across how to ‘get better’ at it.


(Glottis-3D) #3

I do not like, that i jump vertically like an idiot, in i am 1 millisecond too early.

  1. cooldown bar for long jump (not my favorite)
  2. usual forward jump with additional boost on n% of long jump. n is 0% right after the long jump, and it is 100% right after lj cooldown finishes.

(Protekt1) #4

People have trouble with the long jump?

I think if you miss the long jump, there shouldn’t be some shorter but still “long” long jump. You should get punished for mistakes with movement as surely as you should get punished with mistakes with aim.


(Glottis-3D) #5

[QUOTE=Protekt1;528583]People have trouble with the long jump?

I think if you miss the long jump, there shouldn’t be some shorter but still “long” long jump. You should get punished for mistakes with movement as surely as you should get punished with mistakes with aim.[/QUOTE]

ppl do not jump upwards just because they are tired from a long jump, do they? its just stupid. its like if you missed a shot, your gun falls down.

they obviously should be punished by less long jump, just like they get punished with mistakes with aim.


(BioSnark) #6

gasp jump spam advocate!

/s


(tokamak) #7

I’d rather see the difficulty/reward balance lay in the navigation rather than in silly key combos.

Movement should come as natural and accessible as possible, that way you get to make the routes as intricate and difficult as you want.


(DarkangelUK) #8

Having a natural and accessible system removes ‘difficult’ routes. If everyone can do it then it’s standard, bland and meaningless, it’s all simply down to luck of which route works out best for you with no depth of input on how to navigate it.


(BioSnark) #9

Movement is pretty accessible now. Combat involves tapping two movement keys. Everything else is moving down corridors.


(kenpokiller) #10

It’s a shame we drop dead after 2-3 jumps.


(Protekt1) #11

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;528588]ppl do not jump upwards just because they are tired from a long jump, do they? its just stupid. its like if you missed a shot, your gun falls down.

they obviously should be punished by less long jump, just like they get punished with mistakes with aim.[/QUOTE]

The analogy is bad and your point is bad. If you make a mistake like strafing left when you meant to strafe right, you don’t blame the game you blame yourself.


(Glottis-3D) #12

i agree to disagree
=)


(Erkin31) #13

Games like Toxikk have natural and accessible movements, but some routes are still difficult because they require multiple movements/techniques (example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_F1Hg2u68M )
I find this more enjoyable, the simplicity of the base movements allows to use multiple tricks during the gunfights.

That’s why i’m totally agree with this :

On a side note, I would also like to see the spread punishment slightly reduced for long jumps. Entering a fight with a well timed jump should be rewarded and not punished. Especially because when you land your speed is punished anyway, so it already balances out in my opinion.


(Rémy Cabresin) #14

If you’re a few milliseconds off, you’re still a few milliseconds off. This is one of those things where practice makes perfect and it, imo, should really stay that way. Getting a better feel for the game, get used to the timings and practice things. With this solution you could argue that things like reloading and clicking mouse1 before the reload animation is done should already allow you to shoot ‘because you’re just a millisecond off’ :/. All it does it create a more inconsistent movement environment with even more different jump speeds and timings(the movement speeds of specific mercs already impact the timings quite a bit).

The reason why I say higher adoption is simple. I have spoken to a lot of people who claim they do not use it cause they keep messing it up or it gets them killed. Since the only way to practice it is actually during a fight or in a live server currently, most people are just ignoring it.

This quote just proves that so much more. If people ‘mess it up’ that’s on lack of practice and not having enough feel for the game, this may sound arrogant but I(but there plenty of other people who do too) use the movement mechanics(including longjump) constantly and quite consistent, and if I do mess it up that’s due to a chaotic moment and me wanting to be faster and messing up the timing but a solution like you suggest still won’t let me cover the distance I wanted to jump in that moment. The game mechanic itself is not inconsistent. Also you can do a lot of movement practice using the SwitchLevel method, so saying the only way to practice it in fights or live server is simply false :confused:


(DarkangelUK) #15

[QUOTE=Erkin31;528647]Games like Toxikk have natural and accessible movements, but some routes are still difficult because they require multiple movements/techniques (example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_F1Hg2u68M )
I find this more enjoyable, the simplicity of the base movements allows to use multiple tricks during the gunfights.

That’s why i’m totally agree with this :[/QUOTE]

I played Toxikk, it’s an Unreal rip-off and so is the movement… neither had anything resembling note worthy movement.


(PinkFrog) #16

In my opinion, the movement design shouldn’t primarily support building a hierarchy among players as in “who can pull off a trick jump by using obscure and obnoxious key combinations and who doesn’t”. That would not serve teamplay or (tactical) gameplay in general. It would only serve the special-snowflake feeling of some individuals. Which, in my view, is not something that should be a focus.

So, the argument that “easy” movement is bad because everybody can do it is invalid from a gameplay point of view. Rather it would enable more people to make tactical decisions during combat (using the level better, use more diverse team positioning etc.). That would lead to an overall better experience for everyone.

But please note: making jump and run movement more accessable doesn’t mean making it “dumb” or simplistic at all. Timing can still be a vital issue, also using the speed-“flow” or whatever. Having to change weapons inbetween jumps could also be used. Additionally, learning the levels and understanding what can be achieved with the given tools is also a progress. What I just don’t see additional gameplay value in, is adding more key strokes to movement (like crouch-jump or shift-crouch-jump or whatever) just to make movement less accessable. This is ego-centric and doesn’t help the game at all.

P.S. movement in unreal tournament was nice. At least in 2003/4 :wink:


(kenpokiller) #17

Buying/Renting servers where we can alter jump mechanics serversside (1-10+ jumps)

OMG


(Zenity) #18

If you want easy long jumps, bind your crouch key to something more accessible. If you can crouch and sprint at the same time easily, there is practically no chance to screw up a long jump. You simply sprint, then crouch and jump, without ever releasing any of the keys.

I was considering this for a while, but in the end decided not to because doing it the “standard” way is actually easy enough, so I don’t think anything needs to change. Of course it takes a while for it to become second nature, but that’s alright because long jumping is hardly a critical skill. Just something you add to your repertoire eventually and it provides you a minor advantage in a few situations.

If it can be made more accessible then sure go ahead (as stated above, you can already make it dead simple by simply changing your keybinds, so arguing that it’s a matter of skill would be silly). The only thing I would be concerned about is that more forgiving mechanics could also result in me executing a long jump when that wasn’t the intention. The way it is now feels precise, satisfying, and easy enough to master with a few weeks of play time.


(kenpokiller) #19

No, i’m jumping all the time =)

If you do it right you don’t have movement speed loss but not a gain either.


(-PogS-) #20

I really think that being able to practice would settle the problem. Being able to at least play on a server alone would do it. Or even better have SD make a special Parkour level (like the tutorial) to help you practice. It could even record your times and you could compete your best time ghost. That could even make a competition on it’s own.