Intentional suicides

[poiuasd]

So it’s quite common to see people in comp games to suicide just before a spawn wave hits to replenish their ammo and stuff like that. Even if you’re in a certain death situation and the enemy team calls to delay your death enough to make you miss your next spawn wave, you can just kill out and respawn with the rest of your team.
Running out of ammo seems to be the #1 reason why people use this which makes running fire support mercs on your team even less important than they already are.

I personally think that suiciding should be punished somehow (nobody cares about the XP penalty), like giving you a full respawn timer.

What are people’s thoughts on this?

[spookify]

This is the heart of SW game mode. Its all about time management. Sadly I think SD might agree with some of your points but for comp its a necessity. The hud for the spawn timer is weak and heard to gauge.

Maybe instead of spending their time coding penalties they code a better hud.

Also with the same spawn waves its not needed nearly as much.

[Rex]

Quit the game please and return to CoD. Thanks.

[prophett]

Valid tactic which works a lot better when the spawns are staggered (which they should be).

[poiuasd]

for comp its a necessity.

How exactly is this suiciding mechanic a necessity for comp?

[INF3RN0]

It’s barely used in DB anyway.

[spookify]

Comp is all about team work.

You have to work together and “ALL” be together for it to work. Some times a person might not get killed in a specific wave and have to kill out to rejoin their team.

If that person doesnt kill out and is behind enemy lines and cant join up with his team and is killed well then now its a 4v5 with the advantage going to the other team.

The same spawns sort of limits killing out as SD used Echo to determine travel times. No more running at enemy spawns with a nade and killing out. The disadvantage to this is that team can be more aggressive and actually establish a spawn camp with no penalty. If you die while spawn camping you will respawn in time to defend the objective. Catch 22 for SD on what they want to do.

Small maps hurt…
Lame Objectives hurt…
No Progression hurts…
Random Spawns hurt…

You kill you win…

[spookify]

It’s barely used in DB anyway.

True, but only because spawns are the same.

[yakcyll]

True, but only because spawns are the same.

I’m not sure, but my gut feeling tells me this is the reason; why kill out if it won’t have any impact on the line of contact? Besides the maps are small, so unless you’re running low on ammo, currently there isn’t a major point in doing so.
Keep suicides as they are, their usefulness is currently limited anyway, so modifying it right now I find to be a premature action.

[Ceres]

Not this CS/COD **** again…
While you are at it, suggest the removal of ammo and health packs. Wait, forget that, remove all modes and leave Execution only. There, we can easily frag CS/COD in DB.

[yakcyll]

[QUOTE=Ceres;527341]Not this CS/COD **** again…
While you are at it, suggest the removal of ammo and health packs. Wait, forget that, remove all modes and leave Execution only. There, we can easily frag CS/COD in DB.[/QUOTE]

You will always see people whining before considering adapting, that’s why early access is such a bad model.

[Kroad]

lol people here are really overreacting (really don’t see what this suggestion has to do with cod or bf, and i know poiu doesn’t come from either), poiu does have a point about the resplenishing ammo part. Skyhammer and arty arent very useful in comp in maps other than bridge/chapel because an ammo guy isn’t needed when you can just kill yourself and get it back (hell, its rare to need ammo in an even game because you’ll usually die before needing more)

[poiuasd]

You will always see people whining before considering adapting, that’s why early access is such a bad model.

Whining? I’m just curious how other people feel about this. Having a tactical use for suiciding isn’t something you see in every game.

[yakcyll]

Whining? I’m just curious how other people feel about this. Having a tactical use for suiciding isn’t something you see in every game.

That’s fair, the tactical use of suiciding should be pretty clear though - to dump your bullets and explosives on the enemy team in order to slow them down (what SW is all about on defense) and respawn fresh and supplied.
Why I started off from an aggressive side is because I treat such feedback threads as seriously as possible since the feedback in alpha/beta stages can have a major impact in the future and I guess I’m starting to be doubtful. I don’t think punishing for or denying someone the ability to perform tactics that didn’t prove to be particularly harmful to the other team or explicitly unbalanced is ever called for. Didn’t mean to be offensive, sorry.

[BAMFana]

I made a similar suggestion during alpha testing and was met with pretty much the same feedback as you. Some W:ET and ETQW vets get really aggressive when you try to suggest something that’s different from what they’re used to.

[titan]

Both sides have good points I think
Getting caught out on a full wave when your the last attacker and can’t suicide sounds infuriating but at the same time suiciding to get fresh hp and ammo diminishes the team play aspects of the game
I think having suicide is the lesser of two evils

[INF3RN0]

I’d like it if ammo bags did more than resupply. You do get 15% c/d reduction on abilities for direct ammo pack hits (maybe make it 20%?), but also if we made the ammo boxes on maps empty until filled by a FOPs or allowed packs to increase your mag size by 5-10 bullets (ofc reducing normal mag sizes by that amount) on top of giving extra clips people would run them more often. Respawning should be meant for regrouping with your team for the most part imo. The punishment for respawning should be losing ground, but because there are no forward spawns or significant side objs on most of the maps, as well as the identical spawn timers you don’t get punished for dying/respawning very often.

An idea I really liked for the game overall was a spawning system that Pixel suggested. Where in the offense have a 15s timer and defense a 25s timer, but the actual timers don’t start until the first death occurs. In this scenario you become more motivated towards pushing the objective after the first kill, knowing that you can punish the defenders the sooner you gib them out. First blood and aggressive follow up would be greatly rewarded within this system, which I am all for. This also means that respawning would mainly be used for regrouping. Personally I think this system is really needed with how the maps play, almost to the point that it might fix the awkward layouts and frustrating defensive bias.

[INF3RN0]

I made a similar suggestion during alpha testing and was met with pretty much the same feedback as you. Some W:ET and ETQW vets get really aggressive when you try to suggest something that’s different from what they’re used to.

Well to be fair you were advocating for passive/survivalist play styles to be rewarded, which is not complimentary towards fast paced team play. This is different.

[BAMFana]

I’d like it if ammo bags did more than resupply.

Agree, but not with your ammo box refill suggestion. I personally feel ammo shortage is a frustrating mechanic, and would much prefer some boost effect (for example increased clip size, faster rate of fire, less spread, more ammo) from receiving and giving ammo.

An idea I really liked for the game overall was a spawning system that Pixel suggested. Where in the offense have a 15s timer and defense a 25s timer, but the actual timers don’t start until the first death occurs. In this scenario you become more motivated towards pushing the objective after the first kill, knowing that you can punish the defenders the sooner you gib them out. First blood and aggressive follow up would be greatly rewarded within this system, which I am all for. This also means that respawning would mainly be used for regrouping. Personally I think this system is really needed with how the maps play, almost to the point that it might fix the awkward layouts and frustrating defensive bias.

Agree.

[titan]

An idea I really liked for the game overall was a spawning system that Pixel suggested. Where in the offense have a 15s timer and defense a 25s timer, but the actual timers don’t start until the first death occurs. In this scenario you become more motivated towards pushing the objective after the first kill, knowing that you can punish the defenders the sooner you gib them out. First blood and aggressive follow up would be greatly rewarded within this system, which I am all for. This also means that respawning would mainly be used for regrouping. Personally I think this system is really needed with how the maps play, almost to the point that it might fix the awkward layouts and frustrating defensive bias.

Sounds really really easy for attackers to finish maps quick. Excluding terminal and I guess the last stage of trainyard (map design problems) it felt like teams were already doing an okay job of finishing maps. 25s for defense and 15s for offense sounds incredibly brutal for defense. Offense only have to break through once with a first blood kill to guarantee a c4 plant and then all the dead offense members will be back in time to defend it also?