Hey all,
Please post any comments and thoughts that you have on the latest release of dome in this thread. Everything that gets left we will collate and potentially use when we make our final changes to the map.
Any questions, just let me know.
Many thanks.
shoe.
Tried to play dome for an hour: managed to get 6 min in. Most of it with people joining in just before the game finished. Tried to get into stopwatch dome servers but everything was full. Joined and empty one and went through 3 maps (and my first crash of the game) without Dome in the rotation choices.
Soo… maybe if you want dome tested in this limited exclusive, give us vote-map-change or fix dome as one of the possibilities in the rotation?
1st stage was very confusing for me, despite that I won it 3 out of 3 times as an attacker, I still have no idea which gates I was blowing. For now I’m not a fan of it, I liked the previous version much more.
2nd stage - there’s a bug that allows you to plant dyna on the forklift before it gets constructed. Annoying… Except that, I think it’s ok.
3rd stage - my favorite part of all DB maps for a long time already. Good that it wasn’t touched.
The gate next to the helipad that opens up when one of the second objectives is blown up behaves like an invisible wall for bullets. Traded a whole lot of shots with an opponent across the opening, neither of us hit anything and I was getting impact puffs in thin air right where the gate would have been if still closed. Attackers had no problem passing through though.
Screenshot for location reference:
Ive not played enough to say my final judgement, but here is how I percieve the situation:
Map needs improvements in the flow.
1 Its a maze map: People are spread too out, instead of moving an obvious forward direction. What is forward? Where is objective? What is side objective? What is main objective? What? People fighting in places that doesnt matter, for the objectives.
2 Its spawn places are too far away in the beginning.
3 Feels like 1 big section, when it should be 3 sections like on trainyard, where is cut off / changed off visually and physically
For public: People get spread out, and its a mess. Nobody knows really what to do, or why. (Its not obvious that we need to progress to houses further away, then its a maze / houses and more houses) Its too big and maze-designed to naturally / with intuition attack coordinated
For clans: Its size makes it too hard to defend on only 5v5.
Possible solutions:
This !
And keep Dome in the normal rotation for other servers.
For me this is actually the only real DB map ! Lot of tricks routes, I like the new first obj with some real travel time and many possibilities.
The second is still really weird, really hard to defend for the moment. And the last obj is nice this way. There is more tactical depth than any other DB maps.
Waiting for new maps like this and old maps reboot now !
In 5v5 competitive the 2nd obj is not gonna be possible to hold vs balanced teams. Maybe turn one of the plant spots into a forward spawn or some other really handy secondary objective?
Early days but I think the first stage is a bit improvement over the ‘phone box’ but also found it confusing mapping the secondary construction objectives to the gates but I guess it will come with experience. I like the amount of trick jumps that have been added. The other stages seem pretty much identical but they were pretty good to start with.
Aye, second objective could use some window that allows for jumping into the right container (one with MG) from the left container’s rooftops. Atm. its a little too difficult to defend both, I imagine it only getting worse on 5v5. Alternatively, offensive spawn can always be pushed further back, to make a cat&mouse around both of the containers.
A few minor issues with the loading screen: extra objective icon in the top left corner and the descriptions of the last two objectives are inverted
Only played twice but i’m really liking the huge amount of jump possiblities. Would like to see more of that!
the map is good i enjoy the freedom of going on top of the roofs and the objectives are simple and nice maybe the pit seems abit open and stuff but the only problem i have with it is the long jumps in the map i was never told how to do a long jump. only recently after watching PixelTwitch’s video about movement ingame i think it might be hard for new comers maybe add some wall jump training in tut level?
Dome:
Dome is a map designed by people who have no understanding of how the game they designed is actually played…
Before I go into the reasons why, I want to say thank you for following what the community asked for at least…
However, here is why you should not have listened…
DEMAND #1 : Multiple Routes…
While a lot of people on the forums have been begging for more routes to an objective for some time now, I feel Splash Damage has managed to take these demands completely out of context. Yes, Dome is the first map with “real” multiple routes, basically meaning that not all routes still conjoin on a defenders stronghold within a 90 degree field of View. (Think Terminal first objective for a prime example of multiple routes done wrong when it comes to the tunnel, its slower then pipe jump and both ways lead to the same exact choke.)
The problem is that both routes could be considered “Main” routes, both have side objectives and take approximately the same amount of time to reach the objective. (full push and clean would happen on the same spawn wave). From a concept PoV this is great, would make the map attacker bias and flip the incentive onto the defenders side. Also the map should not get to stale due to quick objective times overall. However, due to the attacker bias in the long run we will see defenders taking a much further back position to defend from and it just so happens the best defensive point right now is behind the objective. Like other maps both routes still lead to a single objective that is coverable from a single position. Due to the timing that attackers would naturally hit the objective and distance from the objective, after each wave there should be time for the defenders to repair any generators and forcing yet again, a 50 second wait for C4 (we will get onto this later).
I predict that over time we will see the map go from defender sided to attacker sided and then back to defender sided as the meta switches from close defence to back defence.
This will also be a massive shame as the route with the metal walkway is one of the best designed fighting / secondary objectives in the game. Once the meta switches this position will become nothing more than a area the attackers are forced to travel though to add time rather than a combat area. I believe that the other route should have been used as a side route with a forward spawn capture point (Again, will go into this in more detail later). That secondary route should also have allowed 2 exits that are not visible from a single position. This would allow defenders to focus their defence on one of the best combat areas in the game while having time to return to the main objective. This is partially a problem with the objective type chosen because 2 main routes will never work without time to react. Imagine if on de_dust2 you only had to plant the bomb to win… well yes, this is what you have created here…
The second route should be very easy to defend but should be from a position that is impossible to defend the main route from.
DEMAND #2 : Places to use the Movement…
Yes there are lots of cool jumps on the map. It’s just a shame that they are almost never optimal. Actually, I am not sure if there is a single jump route that is quicker/safer the walking on the low ground. The problem here is that your designing jump routes for a bad movement system. I say bad due to horrendous collision mapping and inconsistencies with the movement overall. There are for example, multiple jump routes that would make sense to do in one fluid movement but due to the badly designed slowdown after a long jump and after certain number of jumps, you often find yourself having to re-adjust your movement on top of a tiny object so you can long jump or line up the next jump. Based on number of wall jumps performed, time in the air and difference in Z land height, the movement punishment should be adjusted. Also, stop worrying about people playing your maps wrong when it comes to the jumps, make interesting maps and react to peoples exploits rather then clamping it down to the point it all becomes useless.
DEMAND #3: Side Objectives…
Yes, they are cool and people want them… However sticking a side objective on two routes leading to a single objective is just plain bad… Especially when its C4 based. The time it takes to achieve the side objective completion vs the reward of doing so is simply not there right now. Especially when a single attacker wipe can often result in a easy full reset to the objective due to repair speed vs destroy speed. A foward spawn however is different. The capture point requires time spent their as a defender that could cost you but give you a good reward for doing so. The C4 simply slightly reduces the time between attack waves and does little to effect the percentage chance of an objective being completed. It simple means the attackers get more attempts.
Really this comes down to a lack of understanding of how the game plays in a public + competitive environment. Eventually people will just clamp down behind the objective and ignore these routes altogether. This will lead to a objective being heavily defender bias once again. One of the biggest issues is the idea of having the first objective as a carry objective. This would have made so much more sense being the gold old hack objective from days gone by. Defenders are able to push forward on the routes for a tight hold and still react by dropping back to kill the hacker. Remove the counter hack and you have a really interesting objective where the defenders will start close up on the routes and fall back as the percentage grows. The only really good capture objective you have had in dirty bomb was the one from white chapel (old white chapel in the church) and Bridge Alt.
I am not even going to waste my time talking about the next two main objectives.
Such an horrendous map from a design point of view in my honest opinion.
— EDIT! #1 —
After playing some more of the map I have to admit I was far to polite in my previous post…
To have 2 long main routes with a carry objective is beyond bad map design and just plain stupid…
If/When you die half way down one of the routes, while carrying the objective you are then forced to take that route for X amount of time. What makes this worse is the enemy teams ability to return at any point. The number of times I have been forced to go one of the routes in order to collect the objective to have it returned just as you reach the point. Options? Do I push forward regardless and secure the point and HOPE some other guy brings the objective or do we go back for it, adding a good 30 seconds to the clock and a boring round trip?
ATTACKERS NEED THE OPTION TO CANCEL THE CARRY OBJECTIVE FROM THE PICK-UP POINT AFTER ITS BEEN SAT FOR MORE THEN 15 SECONDS!
What could be worse then having to do this you may ask???
HAVING TO DO IT TWICE!
The combat areas have been improved, I will give you that…
Shame to have them left useless because of poor objective design YET AGAIN!
Best combat section of Underground?
The stairs that you do nothing but force a 30 second fight on using a bad respawn shifting system.
Best combat section of White Chapel?
The construction site you have a single 1 spawn wave fight on.
Best combat section of Bridge?
Completely taken out of the map.
I have won most of my matches on Dome so please don’t think that is the reason I am so salty…
I am salty because this stuff is common sense…
You cannot have 2 main viable routes with side objectives on a carry objective…
That is an awesome post and your totally right in a 5v5 defenders can’t split between 2 main routes which are so far apart because they’ll just get rolled by 5 man armies. The meta will definitely be defenders sitting deep as opposed to guarding the routes which will become useless.
This post should be taken seriously if you begin arting up the map as it is it will be a real shame.
Very nice post. I’ll reinforce the parts I liked the most:
edit:
I don’t mind having parts of the map that appear ‘useless’. I think its essential in any map to:
The main problem is about obj design as pixel said, I still don’t like the carrying obj mechanic, need to be able to shoot while carying the milk jug , instant pick up is needed to.
I will start out by saying in the 6 or 7 times I have played this new Dome I have yet to make it to the last stage…
Likes:[ol]
[li]The doors are not pre-blown![/li][li]New thought on how to blow and rebuild the doors! The hydroponic door control pumps are cool![/li][li]I like the wall Jumps but a lot seem unnecessary…[/li][li]I like the layout of the second objective[/li][/ol]
disLikes:[ol]
[li]Locations of the pumps? Doesnt seem like placement in real life…[/li][li]Don’t like the Pit of Death Cap[/li][li]All Stage 3[/li][/ol]
I am trying to keep this short and sweet.
Overall this map has great potential and I am loving the new progression!!!
The changes I would suggest are not mind blowing and I have two ways I might like to see this map go.
#1 - Keep map basically the same and remove stage 3… Both Radars (AA’s) need to be planted on stage 2!!! Relocate Hydroponic pumps slightly closer to the doors (Optional) Seems maze like right now. Do not allow a direct path to the Hydroponic pumps but rather a wall on both sides that can be perma blown up. This might add the time needed to the map from deleting stage 3. Maybe add a very hard trick jump to jump the wall… Remove the data core double delivery and add a re-cap forward spawn. A data core CP if you would. Remove the stairs and add block very easy trick jump step blocks.
OR
#2 - Take some of the idea’s from number 1 and add a re-cap spawn in the pit. Add two blast door separating the defending enemy spawn that the attackers will need to blow after capping forward spawn.
Progression!
Conclusion:
No Stage 3
Blow Both Radars Stage 2
Slightly more progression first stage with a double wall blow and crazy hard trick jump.
I like the pumps for the doors but maybe relocated Closer to the door?
Re-Cap Spawn in Pit
No Stairs in pit!
If you have questions about my feedback SD please ask and I can clarify!
EDIT: Please also stop the random spawn points… After a certain amount of time attacking spawns closer? WTF? The spawns and re-spawns need to be locked… Thermail is a crazy example of this where they spawn in back of the door first stage and then infront of it… Waaa!
