Are casuality and simplicity the key for a succesfull game?


(onYn) #1

I know, this is very general and since we are so far in the game development probably way off topic. But I have some thoughts about that topic I would love to share and find out what you guys think about that. It´s going to be long one, and if you aren´t interested into reading it just don´t and move onto the next thread instead of telling me to get to my point faster.

First of all, I totally understand what benefits a simple to understand game has, that doesn´t need much “preparation” before jumping into it. It´s fun and light entertainment that is easy accessible for every individual as long as he has an internet connection. Sounds ideal for anyone who wants to make money with games. But is it really that simple? I honestly don´t think so.

For me this approach is very one dimensional and absolutely not according to how people start playing game, keep playing it and in case of a F2P like it enough to actually pay money for it over and over again. For me trying to keep a game simple and easily accessible is tailored towards a minority of people, who don´t have anything to do and by accident come across this game download it and start playing it on there own. In that case it is great to have a game that is easy and intuitive enough to play it without any further thought. But like I said, in my eyes this is the minority and sounds more like a attitude while programming a mobile game - and that can´t be the targeted audience for any PC game developer really.

So if people don´t come across game by accident and start playing them, how do they actually get into new games over and over again? Some people probably check out what new games are out there and play them according to what kind of rating they get from various gaming papers. This usually is the way how you start playing bigger titles, that focus around single campaigns or how people who have no friends start to play games. But since DB is a multi player game, and I expect people to have at least some social life (even if it´s just online) let´s focus on them… For me, as well as most of the people I know and most “pros” that I have been following in my life and that stated how they got into gaming specific games it is ALWAYS a friend that suggests you a game.

Okay so there is a problem now… Let´s say I am right, and multiplayer games spread mainly like this. Someone has to start with it so here it makes sense to make it simple again! Yes and no. Obviously the game can´t be ****ing rocket science. But we all know those people that understand things fast, are willing to learn, research, try out stuff… etc. Those people will come across the game, and no matter how complicated and difficult it may be. They will get through it.

Once one of our friends has found such a game, that is strange… difficult… makes no sense at all he will eventually suggest it to us (obviously only if its good after he figured it out). You don´t need a lot of people to start that going… It´s like a sparkle can become a huge fire. Once we play the game our friend has suggested to us, we may be slightly overwhelmed from the game itself - if it really is that difficult to grasp. But hey, we have our friend who can teach us what he already knows and figuring things out together is fun as well. Also we do live in a time, where there is a tons of media being produced about almost everything. Once more then 10 people play any game there will be dozens of tutorials in every single language either in written form with pictures on various websites or in video form on youtube.

This friend, will probably have told about this game to more people, so it´s not only going to be the two of us, but most of our friends (who are into gaming) will be trying that game. And to make my point even more clear, let´s say the games initial reaction from almost every player is: the game is horrible. But some actually like it from the very start, and because people usually like to play together they will stick with it a little longer. Eventually it will be long enough to get a grasp of the game and start liking if not loving it. Honestly 2 of my most played games ever, I used to hate for quiet some time. And while I still “hate” one, but still play it with my friends because together it is at least some fun, I have really started to like the 2nd one. And I am quiet sure that all of us know that feeling.

Okay, so since we played so much with our friends - mostly for the sake of playing together - we actually learned how the game works. Most of the information we learned by just playing and exchanging experiences and information with eachother. We researched some things that we were particularly interested in, like a specific gun, role, map etc… I would like to call it growing into a game. You have spent so much time getting better, and finding out how things work that from all of the sudden you not only play it because of the fun with the game and your friends but because you have already spent so much time to get a grasp of the game so you might as well stick to it. It´s very subconscious but it really bonds you to a game, especially in times where you could play different F2P every day for some months straight probably…

Okay, so we first didn´t knew the game, started playing it even tho we had no clue what we are doing. Because of our friends we kept playing some more… until we started to like it by our self. We started researching and learning about the game… trying out stuff and actually understanding what the game has to offer. So what happens after that? Exactly, we suggest it to other people - who go through the exact same process, with us being the “mentor” teaching them while we keep improving and understanding more and more while geting even more excited to push further.

That is the point, where the idea of “the simplier the better” really starts to crumble. Obviously the same process I just described will apply for every game that is good - no matter if it has a lot of depth to it or is as simply to understand as a game that was programmed for a smartphone. The thing is tho, that a lot of “psychological bindings” gets skipped making us feel bored of a game once we played it for a while. We haven´t experienced such a “ugh what am I supposed to do” moment when we jumped into the game for the first time. We didn´t exchane informations all the time in order to understand the game faster. We didn´t talk so much about it and never ever we needed to research something. Also we never get into the position to teach someone, to show them some interesting things in the game. All this experiences contribute heavily to long time motivation.

Don´t get me wrong, a straight forward game, that is institutional and teaches you most of the things you need to know within a couple of hours can be great and fun and some people may become even huge fans. But in general the simpler a game the bigger the turnover rate of players will be. Yeah it will spread like a bushfier early but people will leave the game just as fast as they joined it. I don´t want to be mean now - but it´s almost like with a girl. It´s fine if she is easy to get, great for some fun, but you probably wont get into her too much and eventually drop her for another one that keeps you wondering and surprising even after thousands of hours of playing… ah spending time together ;).

I really like the general concept of the game and love the idea of mercs, teamplay etc… But no matter how hard I try to give it a chance I hop on the server, play some, and usually feel like I have experienced almost everything that this game has to offer within 2 hours. I can do everything with every single merc, the positions paths I or my enemies can take are so easily countable that it really makes me cry sometimes (I think that some of the bomb spots in CS have more tactical depth to them then entire DB maps…). I think the amount of times I thought “how did he do that” is 1 or 2. I know that I can jump on walls, but it looks like a cosmetic gimmick most of the time… even if it wouldn´t, is a position going to be worth it? Hell I don´t even want to find out… Just the pewpew is what makes me start DB again. But that´s probably what it was meant to be from the start.

What keeps me wondering tho, is how a F2P game wants to be successful with such an approach. I know that some people will actually like the game enough - but in general you could think: the simpler the game, the lower the average game time will be resulting in a lower revenue for the items you you sell.
There is a critical time, that a rational person (who isn´t easily overwhelmed) has to spend in a game in order to be willing to spend real money for it. In my eyes people will feel like they have played through everything DB has to offer, way before this game time will be reached.
Also due to the large player turnover, I don´t think that a massive competitive scene will emerge as well. Obviously some will stick to it, but will it be big? Who will watch it? I personally watch competitive games mostly because I like to learn, after some time I start to like certain players, certain teams etc… and then maybe buy skines they use, stickers of teams, etc… But all of it starts with me being willing to learn how pros play. But in a game where you have only 3 effective positions for 5 or 6 people to defend an objective, there is not a huge variety of things I need to learn and mostly won´t watch any pros play at all. So yeah, in my eyes this potential source of revenue will be mostly irrelevant.
I think that beside people who are willing to spent money after a solid amount of played hours and even more expected game hours and those who heavily sympathize with certain personalities/teams within the game only few spend money for F2P games. From all the people who play F2P I know, there is only ONE who doesn´t care about competition and rarely plays a game who has spent some money. Good look finding those people I guess…

I honestly don´t have too much of a problem with all this. I am going to hop on DB from time to time and spent some casual time with it like, hopefully, many others as well. Not because there is anything in the game that catches my interest but just because I like the way you have to aim in DB. I am not going to tell anyone about the game (unless he looks for something casual that needs good aim) I am not going to tell anyone how to do what, and I am not going to try to get better into it. I will just use it to get some break while studying and once I want to play a game that challenges me I will play something else. This is really saddening. The potential this game had, with the stopwatch mode, objectives, mercs, the way you had to aim and the teamplay that could have bound all those elements into one amazing game into one intense experience, just got ignored. There is so much to a players satisfaction besides the initial game experience that doesn´t seem to have any value during the development, its shocking. I just hope that the “bushfire” the game is supposed to become with all it´s “simplicity” is going to be worth ruining all that potential. I even hope more that someone is going to pickup some of the good elements of DB (aiming, stopwatch, mercs, “real” obejctives…) and realize that there is so much more you can do with it…

cheers,
onYn


(BioSnark) #2

I don’t think it’s a good idea to put a high initial learning curve in a F2P game because, with no initial investment, there’s no reason for people not to simply bounce off and find another game. So, I sorta do think it’s “that simple”. However, I agree that the game needs a lot more depth because people need to remain interested to buy into the F2P system rather than just play free until they’re bored and move on. This game has no immediately gripping or innovative features to slap on the digital box and draw a broad audience so it can’t really hope to win some mythical whales sifting through a huge player pool. It needs more minutiae in the maps, classes, movement and/or shooting to keep people interested and invested enough to pay.

I also think following the competition scene is far less interesting to the average fps player than it is to the average rts or moba player, who have games that are more easily spectated. I don’t think your motivations, as they relate to previous, are representative of a significant segment of the potential player base, in that regard. However, I could be mistaken.


(onYn) #3

Well, I never said that what I say is absolute - just what I experience myself and how people I use to play together think as well. But since you usually surround yourself with people who are alike, it may indeed be just a minority opinion.

I am not to sure tho, if a learning curve really has anything to do with the experience we have within a game initially. Let´s say someone get´s into an FPS with a lot of mechanics in therms of movement, shooting, complex team/merc compositions and roles and also maps that allow you to play them in a **** ton of ways. Basically a very complex action FPS. What does someone, who jumps into it - care about all those game elements? He wont notice most of them, so he wont be bothered as well. Probably - on a proper server made for newcomers - he will just run around, shoot and figure out slowly what he can do. I really don´t see any frustration potential there - and even if it could get “frustrating” it would be all a case of how you present the game to the player and how you introduce him.

If it comes to the FPS comp scene, and how watchable it is, I think that you can´t say that an FPS by itself isn´t going to be that interesting in that regard. I just watched a Thorin video about a related topic, where at least the numbers numbers were not supporting that. I didn´t watch it entirely, but the general tone was, that LoL had a much lower competitionitnerested/gamer rate then CS. Obviously this can have many reasons, but for me it´s unlikely for that to be the case when an FPS really wasn´t as appealing to watch in an competitive environment.


(tokamak) #4

Heroes of the Storm is - again- a great example. Blizzard heavily simplified and casualised the game. Items are removed, player deaths are forgiven and all kinds of elements are in place to let a losing team catch up again.

And yet this moba achieves way more depth than the other mobas. In LoL or Dota or Smite it’s a super tense match where each player needs to do the exact same thing they’ve been doing in all the other games and execute it perfectly. In HotS the matches are all unique and players constantly and creatively have to come up with new ways to win. T

So yeah, (initial) simplicity and a forgiving playstyle really don’t have to compromise depth. If done right then it will only encourage it.


(kenpokiller) #5

Challenge yourself in every game. :slight_smile:

Really not one feature that is hard and you want to master :p?

Wait for comp. play/mods ^-^


(kyuto9) #6

Up for the lack of depth in the game.
Like you i’m hopping from time to time in the game since day 1 beta. Thing is i rage so much on this game every god@mn time i play it, and leave in a “not real good” mood because of this and that still not balanced. But one way or another, i’m still playing it weeks or months later in the hope “maybe they fixed stuff and the game has nothing to do with the last time i played”. I know i lie to myself to justify why i get into DB. There must obviously be something i like about it, but can’t say what. Maybe it’s just dumb nostalgia from SplashDamage WET i played for years spamming taunts and bunny hoping like mad (i was 13-16). Still not sure i could get right into WET today the same way and enjoy it as much…

Also someone on the forum often tell me “let the game be the way it is and don’t try to alter it’s core gameplay to fit your own taste”. Sure i prefer Arma and Counter-Strike ballistic and damage logic (especially one hit headshots), and DB is way too “arcade” (can’t find the good term, sry) for me to enjoy it. For example i can’t buy being killed by sawbonez smg performing maccarena while i use skyhammer m4 hitting the dudes head twice or more in single burst. That makes me mad and i can’t help it, maybe autism, you tell me. But on the other hand a friend told me “it’s more or less like WET, why don’t you like it anymore then?”. The answer : I simply played something ELSE than splashdamage productions and got caught into games that gave me a new adrenaline sense i don’t find in DB.

That gets me to the point that DB as fps does not attract me with the fps point which is “here is a cursor, show you aim better than them.”. I assume DB is not focusing there. Alright i get to it. Class based, nice! But once again balancing takes years for less than 10 guys because of loadouts cards and all stuff supposed to tell you “hey look, we have all this depth actually, you can use this card or this card. Even better! You can try to cook them and collect them and buy them etc!” which imo is messed up and misplaced (in that form at least). So i can’t enjoy any class (really, skyhammer is the one i hate the less… I don’t have a “favorite” after this, so long, beta) while i played medic in WET, engi and soldier in QW and medic again in Brink. It came like DNA-related as soon as i got to control them. I don’t have that feel in DB.

Ok so no fps, no class based balance. Did i mention i don’t plan to play like no-life and farm this game? I am student, i have work, i have “stuff n’ things” as rick’d say, and i can’t afford the time the game seems wanting me to take to get it all (while there is actually not much, but the random loot system is pushing it). Still DB format tends to prove the contrary : 15-20min matches, fast paced fps. Perfect for “just two or 3 games and bedtime”. So i guess Splashdamage don’t think i’m worthy playing it cuz they put content in such a way i will never get to try it, either because it’s to long to unlock, either because i’ll be bored farming and leave.

So I don’t like fps feel (up to me), don’t like the way classes are balanced (“still” in the work), don’t have much time to play so i’m not rewarded enough to see what the game has to offer further on (>implying it has anything more to show…). Can someone math it for me, but i think i’m more likely to not play the game, nor doing advertising for it. And don’t tell me “good new! Go away and let us orgasm on our game fatty”, because i’m not the only case like that i’m sure. I know people like me are perhaps cancer to DB, but this topic made me notice a lot of things that aren’t obvious separatly. And still i was there! Playing WET, QW and Brink. I enjoyed each one but loved WET the most. I love FPS too, i love class based and objective based fps also. DB should be the perfect matchup, but it’s not. I’m a potential customer at 90% at least and still i’m in weird situation having SD in pity. Maybe that’s why i play DB, because i think SD still worth something… maybe i’m not the only one doing so.

Imho, DB will have brink faith, but it will fortunatly take longer to come down. If there was players by hundreds on servers, i’d stick to brink instead of DB, no wonder. All the choices and coocking in DB is not really clear. I don’t quite see who they aim for as there are things making SD fans leave and things getting newcomers onboard while they still want to keep fanbase and not changing their production into CoD-like. That probly had to be hard discussed at SD i’m sure. But agreed the f2p experience is not the simpliest path, refering to OP point of view. Not for devs, but neither for players.
i’ll keep coming and play (like i do currently for several day, surprisingly) to see the end of the tunnel. I really wish DB to be a game i feel home at, but…

Every time i post something, i have that feel someone will tell me “then this game isn’t for you buddy”, and i don’t want to believe it, there must be something to do, otherwise i’d have gave up on it more than a year ago already.


(Szakalot) #7

Your post makes me wish again we had friendly-fire servers online already.