Back Peddle Speed...

(PixelTwitch) #1

A really simple one for a change…

Do you think there is any chance we can slightly reduce the back peddle speed…
This will help with them melee kills a little bit and turrets if you run around a corner blindly…

Most of the time during play its rare to actually use the back step. apart from back away from mines, dodging while doing objectives (where your walking anyway) and WASD spamming. My reason for suggesting this is when I was running into a deliver objective as a Bushwhacker but was unable to catch up with a back stepping fragger due to a missed swing. The fragger had time to reload and kill me in the time it took me to reach him again. It’s not like you can long jump into them due to the punishment on landing so I was basically out of luck. I also feel that it could increase player awareness when people realise you get punished for blindly running into places and causing people to turn and run.

I was thinking around 20% reduction on back peddle.
What do you all think?

EDIT::

So… It seems people believe there is some skill in moving backwards at the speed of light…
Can we at least agree to consider removing the penalty for a missed primary knife?

(BioSnark) #2

I’d be concerned that that’s less movement in the game rather than more.

(PixelTwitch) #3

I had a feeling this would come up and I do understand what your saying but I have put this out there…

When are you using backwards movement as “movement”?
Really the only times you would use that backwards key is to back off from the things that I mention. Simply, the back peddle speed makes aggressive knifing and knifing when out of ammo in the clips so less valid that you would almost always choose to reload. Also, when carrying an objective its hard for a Proxy to even catch up to a back peddling Fragger. It’s not even like its a one knife kill…

There is also very little punishment for “dumb” play such as sprinting around corners as the back speed while shooting is still so fast.

I mean I would even be happy if the back peddle speed reduction only applied when firing…
I just honestly believe its a small change that people would hardly notice for the change it is…
Yet at the same time it will add to certain situations…

(ailmanki) #4

you can avoid getting shot by strafing left right, but if your also getting shot from the side you need to move forward and backwards, kinda make a circle movement… it’s also good for that.

(BioSnark) #5

@pix

When not sprinting, obviously, I use the keyboard to dictate where I’m moving, not the direction I’m aiming. I understand that other people have different habits.

As for your second point, I completely disagree. There’s getting killed next to instantly. A firefight in this game is nearly all aiming and little or no cognition. It’s a feature I quite loath.

In ET:QW, I have a wide suite of options when in a firefight, regardless of the odds. There’s using enemy positioning/friendly fire to reduce enemy fire, picking out objective or medic classes as potentially suicide-worthy priority targets, running for cover to heal, running away, grenade assault or grenade covered retreats. What’s more, I can assess how much damage I am taking because I don’t randomly die instantly or take almost no damage from a hit. There’s actual consistency in incoming and outgoing damage. As annoyingly, movement or acceleration is sluggish in comparison to TTK. I hate how little agency I feel in Dirty Bomb. Having it further reduced would be concerning.

(PixelTwitch) #6

Well first off I just want to point out that I never played much ET:QW…
I have however watched a ton of matches and I have to say, I am not seeing that many “options” in a fight.
From what I see it looks pretty much the same as it is here. If your stood in the open, your as good as dead.

I would personally argue that Left -> Right -> Left spam is not exactly the great example of skill I was expecting for my first SD game.
You are basically saying that “PRESS S” when someone runs at you with a knife requires decent cognition?
For me it would be long jumping past them, turning and running or hitting every single bullet to stop them that I would consider skill.

However, I sense I will not be able to change your mind and you will certainly not change mine.
So can we at least find a middle ground and suggest you no longer get slowed when doing a quick knife swing (left click)?
Adds MORE movement so I am guessing that would be cool right?

But seriously… Right now melee is a clunky spammy mess…

(Glottis-3D) #7

i know for sure, that in quake making a difficult trick jump backwards was some awesome sh***t to do and to watch.

i would like to see this be a part of this game more.

(i hope i get the point of the thread - this is about backwards speed?)

(BioSnark) #8

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;524352]I have however watched a ton of matches and I have to say, I am not seeing that many “options” in a fight.
From what I see it looks pretty much the same as it is here. If your stood in the open, your as good as dead.[/QUOTE]

If by matches you mean competition, the promod reduced spread which reduced ttk, aside from that the people are generally quite good.

No. I’m saying being able to back around a corner while engaging an opp… never mind. I saw the first post edit. Worthless discussing if you prefer strawmanning. I wish you hadn’t asked what people thought so I wouldn’t have bitten.

(Mustang) #9

I honestly thought the thread would be about increasing back-pedal speed and thought to myself, “finally, about time someone asked for this to be fixed again”!!!

Sadly it’s about the complete opposite… :frowning:

(BioSnark) #10

I wish someone would make another movement system thread. I miss those. Feels like everyone’s resigned to what it is, now.

(PixelTwitch) #11

[QUOTE=BioSnark;524362]If by matches you mean competition, the promod reduced spread which reduced ttk, aside from that the people are generally quite good.

No. I’m saying being able to back around a corner while engaging an opp… never mind. I saw the first post edit. Worthless discussing if you prefer strawmanning. I wish you hadn’t asked what people thought so I wouldn’t have bitten.[/QUOTE]

Let me be clear mate, I respect what you are saying but it does not help here…
I have come here and tried to present a problem I feel the game has (Walking backwards too strong vs knife)…

You replied and then I replied back with more details about what I was getting at…
You then came back with a reply that really had nothing to do with the back peddle at all…

In ET:QW, I have a wide suite of options when in a firefight, regardless of the odds. There’s using enemy positioning/friendly fire to reduce enemy fire, picking out objective or medic classes as potentially suicide-worthy priority targets, running for cover to heal, running away, grenade assault or grenade covered retreats. What’s more, I can assess how much damage I am taking because I don’t randomly die instantly or take almost no damage from a hit. There’s actual consistency in incoming and outgoing damage. As annoyingly, movement or acceleration is sluggish in comparison to TTK. I hate how little agency I feel in Dirty Bomb. Having it further reduced would be concerning.

Out of the examples you gave none of them relied heavily on backwards movement speed while shooting…
Before my reply I had also seen the following on other threads…

I think what’s worse than OP’s list is that the game doesn’t try to do anything that SD didn’t already do in W:ET/ET:QW but it doesn’t match up to those predecessors as movement/classes/combat/maps are simplified.

We need a grenade on each merc as well as friendly fire and player collision to reduce the brain dead herding around stations… and brain dead herding in any situation. Friendly fire makes multiple player engagements so much more interesting.

While I agree with some of the points (Friendly Fire Mainly) the post made me realise you really want ET:QW 2 or something similar, there was/is no way I could try and convince someone with firm beliefs, to do something that is the opposite of what he/she wants. All in all I felt that you got your say in but never really tackled the problem I had tried to present but yet never confirmed or denied that you felt the same about being able to simply back off from a knife attack.

Decreasing the backwards step speed is by no ways the only way to deal with this… SD could increase movement speed with knife, remove punishment for quick knife swing or increase the range a fair bit. However, in order to promote more ideas I never wanted to present to many in the OP. Anyway, sorry if I have offended you.

(DarkangelUK) #12

My worry is that reducing the backwards speed will add to the meat grind. I’m guilty of knowing I’m in a losing situation so back away while shooting to at least throw them off and cause some damage myself, going slower will increase my chances of dying and decrease my chance of escape. I can always 180 and sprint away, then they can just pop me in the back without having to dodge bullets and cause no damage in return. All of this means is that I’m going to slow my play style down and hang back a lot more as I die enough as it is… and you want this change just so I can also be killed by a knife to make me feel even more crap at the game.

How about a charged knife lunge that gives a mini-boost forward when released?

(BioSnark) #13

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;524374]Let me be clear mate, I respect what you are saying but it does not help here…
I have come here and tried to present a problem I feel the game has (Walking backwards too strong vs knife)…[/QUOTE]
I don’t care about being able to back away from a knife attack. The thing I was responding to and the thing you asked for thoughts on was “around 20% reduction on back peddle.” This alters how the game plays, independent of your knifing situation as it limits where people can aim when they want to move to a location. I want a firefight to potentially conclude with one player backing around a corner if they find they are facing multiple opponents or, more likely, they are holding a ****ty machine pistol and they are facing an AR at moderate range. I want players to back away from a doorway that has a bunch of glowing Nader spam bouncing in. I want engagements to potentially end without someone killing someone else. I think cursor-relative forward move speed is already augmented enough via sprinting.

I don’t want this game to be ET:QW 2. I don’t particularly need to see more W:ET trick jumping and I prefer dodging projectile weapons to dodging a player’s mouse cursor. I just want a game that is similarly complex in combat. I don’t think there’s enough opportunity for smart play. That line of discussion was in response to your “There is also very little punishment for “dumb” play”.

edit: I should note that I almost always play light mercs because they aren’t slow. Outside of close combat, the correct course of action in an engagement is often to disengage due to inferior weapon range and health.

(Violator) #14

A big no to reducing backwards movement speed. I want to be able to kite knife maniacs and have a chance against shotgunners (vs doing a 180 and getting shot in the back of the head while turning). The risk with backpeddling is you can’t see where you are going, that is enough IMHO.

On the melee note, I would like to have 1-hit-kill backstabs consistently work.

(PixelTwitch) #15

Wow totally got shot down on this one… may as well close the thread.
I will just have to get used to knifes being ****ing useless without spamming like an idiot.

(Mustang) #16

If the primary reasoning was to improve knife combat then I don’t oppose the premise, but there are other ways to tweak/fix it that I’d be much more interested in seeing, backstabs, hit range, hit detection, swing mechanics, animations, etc.

(PixelTwitch) #17

yea, yea I know…

Just get frustrated with all the SPEED == SKILL thing these forums seem obsessed with…
4-5 Months ago people where complaining when SD said they was going to slow the game… SD slowed it…
All was forgotten and then recently I seen them people complaining back then now complaining about the lights being to fast…

I could totally be wrong but I really do believe that people are more attached to the idea of hyper speed than actually having hyper speed.
Games like 20% slower then it was this time 9 months ago and most people never even noticed lol.

ANYWAY!!!

Yea, I thought of quite a few ways you could make the knife more effective also.
I just wanted to avoid the speed increases because I have a feeling most people would be up for it >.<

when it comes to backstabs, I love the idea but I fear they could get buggy in a game this fast?

simply removing the speed punishment on a missed swing would go some way to helping I suppose.

(BomBaKlaK) #18

Keep the backpedal speed as it is ! Kind of bad idea here …

(Runeforce) #19

I would actually like to see backwards longjump.

#20

When aura or proxy comes blazing to stab me, I get 1 stab without noticing, then I got stab sound and a big bloody screen. I usually die 4/5 times.

A few elite proxies/auras attack me while doing matrix movements (how it feels like as a slow skyhammer). I feel humbled and want them to do tutorials how to pull off their stuff :slight_smile: