3x Proficiency?

(PixelTwitch) #1

I believe that currently, the difference between a proficient Merc and a non-proficient Merc is x2.

Sure it does make certain Mercs better at certain thing but not enough to really focus a Mercs role. I would like to see this time stretched to a 3x system in order to make using the proficient Mercs more meaningful. As a start, I would personally like to see…

C4 Plants/Defuse with Proficiency take 4 seconds.
C4 Plants/Defuse without Proficiency take 12 seconds.

It would mean it takes a Proxy 1 second less… and a Sawbones 2 seconds more so the overall effect is quite small. However, the feeling and contrast should have an effect on how people approach the objectives.

I just feel 3x is a decent place to focus on all proficiencies we currently have and will have in the future.
What do you guys think?

(titan) #2

should just bring back class specific objectives really

(PixelTwitch) #3

I don’t disagree with you really…
However, I don’t think that is likely to happen so I am just trying to stretch the difference as much as possible while remaining relevant. If you stretch the time too long you run into the problem of it being effectively class specific but with bad messaging.

I suppose the problem with classes is that you would almost always end up with a “best” Merc for each class so the rest of the game starts to crumble.

(INF3RN0) #4

I’ve been toying with the idea of making ‘proficiencies’ involve more than just completion rates. It might be cool if instead of just the variable % values, there were unique perks to each archetypes interaction. EX. being able to use a side arm, remote arming, possibility for fast defuses (like wire cutting in CS), etc.

(PixelTwitch) #5

I actually made a thread just before this one talking about allowing heavies to have secondary weapons with Jugs. And I would like certain “passives” like you mentioned. However not to the entire role but on a more Merc by Merc basis. I have mentioned a few times now but giving Proxy a way to Proxy defuse c4 would be nice up to like 10 feet away or something (lets her keep her head safe on Victoria for instance). I think it is the way forward but I think the more direct proficiency should remain % based until then so that Mercs without some crazy extra ability are not left out.

(onYn) #6

Sounds okay. But I want to see the “efficient” classes to have actually the ballanced objective completion time, and not the other way arround.

I think that there will be a “best” merc regardless, or at least very popular for pub plays especially. In this case, specific classes could even help out a little by spreading that out a little more. The nature of the game itself would force a larger variety of mercs to be played, since otherwise you couldn´t complete an objective or the game.

From a matchmaking/competition point of view, I am pretty sure that having classes won´t make the balance any worse. This of course need´s the mercs to have viable abilities, that have unique benefits for the team, what I totally can see being the case and even if not, I doubt it be worse then it would be without calsses. A positive aspect would be that you could see more mercs actually being played in competitive play, as well as a more intense game since you will have to do much more drastic calls.

(tokamak) #7

A drone-operating engineer that is able to let a quadcopter deliver a charge to the objective and then have the drone arm that (or someone else’s) charge like the constructor could do with deployables in QW would be great.

(montheponies) #8

I was thinking of a remote controlled 4*4 - combination defuser/planter and when primed a remote controlled bomb…would be fun, unless your on the wrong end of it.

EDIT: as for the OP, yeah go for it, more distinct capabilities is the closest we’ll get to class based objectives.

(tokamak) #9

I’m totally okay with one merc being a demolition drone on tracks.

No strafing, no jumping. Permanent heat vision. Armoured and carries a deployable gun and a slot for other mercs to put a deployable in so that the aura becomes mobile.

Medics can’t heal this guy but engineers can repair the merc and opponent mercs can hack and EMP it.

Basically a mini-EV merc.

(Glottis-3D) #10

yes for 3x proficiency, even 4x.
and BIG YES to class-restricted. i mean who needs medics that spends a minute repairing a EV… is he having fun there? are his teammates happy with this medic? does these repairing medics bring ANYTHING good to the game? /rhetorical Q imho - no they do not./

(tokamak) #11

Teams that lack an engineer definitely do.

(Orellien) #12

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;515552]yes for 3x proficiency, even 4x.
and BIG YES to class-restricted. i mean who needs medics that spends a minute repairing a EV… is he having fun there? are his teammates happy with this medic? does these repairing medics bring ANYTHING good to the game? /rhetorical Q imho - no they do not./[/QUOTE]

To answer that rhetorical sincerely…

A non-Engineer doing a full repair on an EV or full defuse on a bomb? Yeah, that can feel a bit weak and pointless. Almost like they’re not supposed to be doing that and should have an engineer take care of things.

What I personally have found non-Engineer repairing useful for, however, is when the EV’s almost fully repaired, the bomb almost defused, but the engineer got killed because the enemy brought an airstrike to the party. At that point, making it feasible for anyone to show up and finish the job puts extra pressure on the other team, since now they have to stop everyone on the other team, not just hide so they can pick off the engineer.

On the other hand, that does make it less important to pick your targets better. The big, beefy bas- bloke with the minigun is only slightly less of a threat to complete the objective than the speedster in a tanktop. Pretty much any gameplay or balance decision is going to have upsides and downsides and side-sides all over the place. I just felt that it was worth bringing up what I do see as a positive with the semi-agnostic class objectives.

(Glottis-3D) #13

[QUOTE=Orellien;515559]To answer that rhetorical sincerely…

A non-Engineer doing a full repair on an EV or full defuse on a bomb? Yeah, that can feel a bit weak and pointless. Almost like they’re not supposed to be doing that and should have an engineer take care of things.

What I personally have found non-Engineer repairing useful for, however, is when the EV’s almost fully repaired, the bomb almost defused, but the engineer got killed because the enemy brought an airstrike to the party. At that point, making it feasible for anyone to show up and finish the job puts extra pressure on the other team, since now they have to stop everyone on the other team, not just hide so they can pick off the engineer.

On the other hand, that does make it less important to pick your targets better. The big, beefy bas- bloke with the minigun is only slightly less of a threat to complete the objective than the speedster in a tanktop. Pretty much any gameplay or balance decision is going to have upsides and downsides and side-sides all over the place. I just felt that it was worth bringing up what I do see as a positive with the semi-agnostic class objectives.[/QUOTE]

well. i just played a match on trainyard, that serves as a great example.

3v3 defs had 2 soldiers and a FOPS.

i planted 3 times. got killed, waited for about 1-5 secs (was close to respawn) before respawn, then ran like crasy from spawn and couldt make it. if it was 3x slow i could have made it to the bomb and could have had a chance to protect the bomb.

(Glottis-3D) #14

i want all other mercs except for the OBJect merc could only Boost the Obect-progress.

[I]i actually think that drones-idea is perfect (aside from old class objects)

  1. non object mercs can only use repair drones, that repair/defuse 20% of the object and then they break. with cooldown 1 minute.
  2. so. if engie repair almost full ev and died - everybody can finish the job. in 5 seconds.
  3. no medic will spend enraging amount of time for nonsense things.
  4. for comp: full team of non object mercs can go full repair with drones.[/I]

some fun arises here:
-team needs to kill the enemy, but also they need to kill the drones. and then watch for engie
-turrets can kill the drones.

+plus SD nevertheless needs to explain to newcomers the core of proficiency and IMHO small drones + blowtorch sounds better than pliers and blowtorch. just because drones realy differ from blowtorch, that what i mean here.

(rookie1) #15

A So little Positive point ^^ Beside what class specific objectives Back in core game would do

(INF3RN0) #16

Some more detailed ideas… just sticking with archetypes for now since it’s a faster means of fleshing out ideas, which could later become merc specific. I had put similar ideas in a previous thread talking about different approaches to the obj system. Let’s just say that the standard arm/disarm takes 12s to plant and 24s to disarm.

Engineer: 200% efficiency. Can stack on disarms/plants/repairs and have no penalty on carry.

Recon: 100% efficiency. Can steal an obj kit off of an incapacitated corpse, friendly or foe.

Assault: 100% efficiency. Can plant up to two charges. Gains a temp bonus hp when performing an obj action (resets when completed).

FOPS: 100% efficiency. Ability to use a side arm and obj ability while performing obj actions.

Medic: 100% efficiency. Can attempt a quick obj action (plant/diffuse/hack/etc) with a 25% chance of successfully performing the action 40% faster or self-inflicting 80 damage.

(rookie1) #17

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;515568]
Medic:[/I] self-inflicting 80 damage.[/QUOTE]

This I like :slight_smile:

(fzl) #18

should just bring back class specific objectives really

that is the one and only right answer in this thread

return to class based obj… remove this stupid loadout cards a good tactical shooter dont need hundreds of weapons or skins or something like that…

this says 70% of all players for a year or more…but nobody hears that…

is see this game now on a completely wrong way … we can rename this to Brink 2 or something…

so sad…