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Thread: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

  1. #41
    Senior Member diaboliksmart's Avatar
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    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by KeMoN View Post
    Thanks for the comments, tell me what you think once you gave it a try ingame.

    As for bot waypoints: A waypoint-file has been forwarded to the omnibot devs, hoping they will create a proper script for it, as the sole waypoints are useless without it.
    Great map! But what about OB files please ?

  2. #42

  3. #43
    Senior Member diaboliksmart's Avatar
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    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Merci Mateos, and I confirm FPS much lower than usual maps.

  4. #44
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    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    In game download wasnt so mouch one or 2minutes

    But that yellow light...
    Is the light yellow becouse its coming from the sun?

    I like that the objectives becoming visible on cm after the time

    Just a little thing; the tiger stops in front of the door
    -why?, a dynamite should not be needed, a tiger in real should only blow the gate and continue.

    This is common in maps, and wrong, make the tiger just blow the gate in the air and also place some splitter after

    Otherwise: very good work
    Last edited by oveove; 12th Mar 2014 at 19:24.

  5. #45

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by oveove View Post
    Just a little thing; the tiger stops in front of the door
    -why?, a dynamite should not be needed, a tiger in real should only blow the gate and continue.

    This is common in maps, and wrong, make the tiger just blow the gate in the air and also place some splitter after
    Could be the Tiger having a single shot available, so keep it for the big gate at the castle

    Logic since there's no recharge in the map for the Tank (like stealing one and securing it at the Tank when it reaches the end of its path).

  6. #46
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    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Sure but if you look at for example kellys heroes
    Okey its fiction...
    But the allies attacks the 3 tigers in front of the bank with one sherman
    They also attack while the germans dont know they are there, and that tanks at least 2 of them after one was shooted from behind, however unprepaired they just moved around and shooted wild

    Actully, kellys heroes can be good map (^.^)

    Well they moving around and shooting wild...
    So actully, the tiger should have 5 to 4 shoots avivable always

    The repairing part can we see just like, its damaged by a battle before and needs serviceso actully okey it could have waisted the loadup of shoots in that battle?

    However look at adlernest the churchill has blown a hole in the wall
    (and i guess that it needed more than one shoot..)
    (And then it was more than one shoot in the tank to relaod with)

    Actully we can say like this
    The allied force in the map has forgotten the
    manual of the tiger and cant reload lol

  7. #47

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Just make the gate look reinforced or something, I too was sat in the tank at that point waiting for it to shoot the gate down.

    I've only done a walk through on my own on this map but the castle grounds are very confusing to navigate, the whole map feels like a single player map, perhaps you should make a version for COOP mod

    ETQW Mediocre Club

  8. #48

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Currently reported issues that are being worked on:
    * players can get stuck in the water wheel
    * axis CP can't be destroyed
    * minor issues with terrain blending and lightmaps
    * inanimate flame shader and flickering texture on knights in some mods
    * white tree shadow outlines on snow
    * burned decal behind torches

    Currently reported concerns:
    * FPS drops
    The map has been tested on matches with up to 7 vs 7 and there haven't been any complaints.
    I occasionally checked and had 40 FPS, yet the game ran stable and lag-free, which is the only thing that should matter. There is a reason you have no FPS meter in modern games.
    Please bear in mind that this map has a high level of detail and a rather open terrain and never was and never will be intended for competition gameplay.
    However I confess to rather sloppy vis blocking. It has been heavily improved and therefore performance and FPS should run more stable in beta2.

    * Big .pk3 size
    The .pk3 has a size of 50MB. Please bear in mind that you download a map only once in your entire gaming career (unless you re-install). It took me 3 minutes to download the map ingame with a connection of 300KB/s, and that connection is rubbish for modern standards.

    There will be tests with lightmaps of 512x512 instead of 10242x1024 pixels for beta2, however if there are noticable differences in shadow quality, we will continue using the more detailed lightmaps. There will be NO additional light version.

    * Castle design feels too close to SinglePlayer
    Understandable. This map is a tribute to RtCW and therefore the castle design is replicated as exactly and accurately as possible. I replicated the most recognizable areas and rooms from both SP missions, but rearranged them in an entirely new way to make better use of the available space. I also added several corridors, tunnels, destructible walls etc to make it more playable on multiplayer. I believe that once you are more familiar with the castle design, you won't have troubles finding the objectives anymore.
    The main issue that a SP design would create is linear gameplay and massive objective camping. However the Allies have to accomplish "only" 2 out of 3 objectives, which prevents constant objective camping.

    * Omnibot files
    Waypoints have been passed along to the omnibot devs, hoping they will write a bot script. I am not involved in the creational process, so your best bet is to contact them about it.

    * Forward Gate tank vs dynamite
    The Forward Gate is an alternative to a second ordinary tank barrier and will therefore not be changed, because there are currently no noticable issues with gameplay. Admittedly, it would make more sense for the tank to shoot the gate down, but the tank in fueldump could just as well drive into the depot and shoot the fuel dump directly. Same goes for the door controls in adlernest.

    * RtCW COOP version
    The .map file is planned to be released once we reach a stable version. What happens from that point on is not in our responisbility. If someone creates a COOP version, he definitely should do that, since it also tells us that our map is being accepted to a greater extent. An official COOP version by phisherman and me will not be made.

    I hereby would like to thank the UJE clan for beta testing the map on their Teamplay server. The map runs stable and is, despite low FPS, absolutely playable. Everyone is welcome to join and test (server gets regularly full on evenings). Also thanks to everyone else, who reported issues and concerns up to now.

    Regards
    Last edited by KeMoN; 14th Mar 2014 at 16:01.

  9. #49

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Kemon, reduce game entites - there are more than 500 ents created at the start. This should help to get more fps. Compared to "The Shrine beta1" your map uses about 270 !!! more entities. Keep in mind each entity might be processed and cause network traffic ...

    ... and fix this historical glitch of the gramophone song - the singer was in the age of 10 in 1944

  10. #50

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    The map has a tank and more objectives, of course it's going to have more entities...

    ETQW Mediocre Club

  11. #51

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by .Chris. View Post
    The map has a tank and more objectives, of course it's going to have more entities...
    It's not all about objectives see f.e. weapons, smoke & other gimmicks:

    http://pastebin.com/VebkAFwX

    I'm not saying reducing the number of entities is the only way to optimize this map but to me this is one obvious reason why fps are poor. All ents from the linky are 'inuse' (= processed each frame). There are also some loops over all game entities in the code to find a special entity - as result big entity game list drops frames for sure.

  12. #52

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    With a better VIS there will be less visible entities at once, thus less rendered. And most are spawns as far as I can see, which aren't rendered?

  13. #53

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    Rather stupid to make a map that requires you to use NASA computer to be able to play with good fps. Not every shadow and texture needs to be high quality, no one besides mappers care for that stuff. I haven't met anyone who has stable 125 fps around the map, and for a map this size it should be very reachable goal. I don't feel like buying a new computer to play 11 years old game.

    Looks like it could be a nice map though, but I'm pretty sure no one will ever put this version to their server, as it would totally kill the server activity. Thus making it useless work.
    UseMe&pupup0x

  14. #54

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    And it's stupid to think it is the texture and shadowing quality which causes the bad FPS, since they're static and loaded as is: it's the VIS part which is problematic.

  15. #55

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    What a hate filled post, someone piss in your cornflakes?

  16. #56
    Wolf:MP BackSnip3's Avatar
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    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    huPoo probably wishes he could do a map like this. A good community member doesn't say things like this. Only ignorants do.
    Optimizing a map is a big deal and sometimes it can take longer than building the rest of it. KeMoN is still working on the optimization everyday, with some graphical tweaks that I helped him to setup.
    Hating doesn't solve problems, helping does a better job at it. Feedback is good, spam is crap.
    Next time think before you write, it will save us some time.
    My 2 cents...
    Quote Originally Posted by tomv8 View Post
    omg u genius ty
    Box is pretty - Margus

  17. #57

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    I'm all for constructive criticism, But to start a rant with "Rather stupid to make a map..." and to trash someones work, and it was work.. as anyone who has made the effort for this or any other community, with an ignorant comment such as "Thus making it useless work...." be it a shader post, a model, a map.. a texture.. I would say keep any comment you feel you need to post as constructive, that can help to improve is ok. Honest feedback is always appreciated.
    But @huPoo.. I would say, if the most honest criticism you can offer that is just ignorant hate filled remarks that do not benefit this community or push it to higher levels... then please take the time to learn the talent of making a map, the talent of writing a script or shader, learn the talent required to make or animate a model..

    Basicly... Learn some talent in this medium before you criticize those who have it.

  18. #58

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    huPoo is not hating, you guys alienate someone who just wanted to help this map gaining any popularity. He wrote some cruel words but I do agree with him. I wouldn't write it that way, though. The map is beautiful but at the moment it has no chance to be popular because of low FPS and too many entities (MAX_GAMESTATE_CHARS thing occuring with many players?). I'd consider it playable if I were getting at least 76 FPS in the worst part of the map with my old dual-core CPU (mid-low graphics settings). Unlike modern games, in ET frames per second do matter.

  19. #59

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    The issue in what you've stated is that huPoo pointed elements which are irrelevant to the performances ^^'

    I agree about the amount of entities (had to go through this myself :/).

  20. #60

    Re: [MAP RELEASE] Dingenskirchen - a tribute

    If it havent been that I love this map (Yeah I do).. I wouldnt bother comenting anything here. BUT I for one know how hard it can be to optimize a map.
    I having big issues on the ho_chi_minh trail map too. problems sometimes is when you optimize one part another become actually worse.. This is the real hard part in mapping.
    One thing I've learned from this map of mine is to block out your map first so you want have that problem later. Tho this isnt too fun, you save a lot of trouble later. Experienced this on the latest started map safe_spot.
    There I made the terrain first, then I blocked the whole map so VIS cant be a problem.
    the big problem on this wonderful map is the line of sight. So you're gonna have big problems optimize it. I hope you pull it thru, I really do as this is true quality work .

    Keep it up!
    I'm an engineer, lets just asume I'm right...


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