Sustaining 'fun'


(Anti) #1

Several folks have mentioned things like this to me in the last few weeks (taken from another thread)…

[QUOTE=Shifty.;446085]
What TicTacToe mentions is the problem DB has right now. I can play DB only one or two maps then I’m bored and leave. As it seems, many other people have the same behaviour/issues.[/QUOTE]

I’d love to know what you guys would like to see to make the game more enjoyable and have more longevity. Is it something about the game’s design that causes you not to find sustained fun right now? Or is it down to bugs, empty servers, lack of friends in the game and balance?

If it’s the latter then all I can say is that these will be fixed with time as we improve the game, if it’s the former though then we have a lot more work to do still and any specific feedback you folks have on how we could improve this would be great to hear.


(BomBaKlaK) #2
  • Not enough friends playing (only hardcore SD fans)
  • Little player base (lot of my friends waiting the Elite unlock and are a bit bored of waiting.)
  • Movement and TTK problem
  • Bugs ! (even an SD guy dont remember the name sry :stuck_out_tongue: just say yesterday night : “So many bugs in this version !”) So yes waiting for a better build
  • Maps issues (Claustrophobic, narrow, etc …) not enough “useful” secondary objective. (command post, capturable spawn point, secondary route, etc …)
  • Spawn waves ! (you frag someone 3s after is back !) the spawn time is one of the main issue with spawn waves, without a nice timer the game feels really chaotic, and at least boring.
  • Objective design in some case doesn’t fit well (open bar objectives) and turn to a meatgrind fest ! Carrying objective are not really fun to do due to the objective design, and escort became boring … the EV is so slow.
  • Metagame is not really here.
  • Only 1 layout per class is not enough.
  • Level 39 stacking vs 0 level players … a shuffle on every new map can be really nice. (except on match server)
  • Lot of players just don’t care about the objective and play the frag only …

So it’s not only the SD fault.


(Kl3ppy) #3

Since you quoted me, I’ll share my opinion now:
I really can’t say which destroys the fun most for me, but I’m unhappy/disappointed with the overall feeling of DB. The movement feels just wrong. Yes it is faster than any shooter I play right now, but for example the mouse feedback is completly strange. There are several threads about it.
Also I’m a bit disappointed that the maps are so “poor” gameplay wise. I know, small maps and small team size dont give you a huge map, but I somehow find this maps hillarious. Almost every map has the same attack routes, 2-3 ways to the objective etc. The carryables are just a pain in the ass. I dont like the actual concept you guys are using: Pick up zone closer to the defender spawn and delivery zone closer to the attacker spawn. Imho, this should be vice versa. I did just play ETQW and tbh, Island shows a good way how carryable objectives should work. The map which annoys me atm at most is canary wharf. The transmit is almost unstopable when the disks get picked up. They run away and you as defender cant protect the delivery zone.
Also the EV is way to slow/the routes are way too long. It takes 10mins for the EV to go thru the map and the traveling time is almost up to 50% of the complete map time.
The next thing that annoys me is the overall weapon handling. I dont know if im to “unskilled” or what, but I dont get a feeling for the guns. On top of that, there is Ironsight. Usually I like IS and I use it too. But in DB, IS is the most useless thing. Wh en you use IS, the recoil at the medic smg (left right + up) makes it very hard for me to aim proper with IS. When I have IS and I use IS I want the feeling thatI actually hit better on distance with IS than without using IS. In the current state, IS is useless and is not need.

That should make it for the first attempt, when I find more things, I’ll let you know.

The points you, Anti, mentioned arent the “fun killers” for me. Its an alpha, alpha software usually has a lot of bugs etc, but in this, DB is doing good. Also the player count doesnt bother me because it is an alpha and the primary purpose is testing. There are about 50 players online in the evening and the servers arent big so you should get 2 servers filled.
But what really bothers me is the fact, that there are some ppl who think, hey, lets steamroll one map after the next or abuse glitches/bugs. It should be about testing and shaping a game and not about spoiling other players and stack the hell out of a server. I know, it makes more fun to play with your frineds than play vs your friends, but that doesnt matter here. We are here to help SD to make a good game and shape the game.


(BomBaKlaK) #4

Map design and objective design (carrying and open hack) are the main issue to me ! Shooting and moving will change so I wait to talk about, but actually this is not so good.

Map design look always similar like you said. Maps are closer to brink maps than WolfET or ETQW maps !
Where are the Wolf ET and ETQW mappers ? That’s not CS maps :wink:
For the moment the only map I really like is camden


(Kl3ppy) #5

pls delete, brain fart


(Kendle) #6

I find myself now only playing a few rounds then leaving. It’s not so much boredom though as frustration.

  1. Spawn times are too short.

Short spawn times have one advantage: they get you back into the action sooner, which is supposedly necessary to grab the attention of today’s “must have it all right now” generation of gamers (love to see the research that suggests this is the case however).

But short spawns also have a number of serious disadvantages:

a. Completing objectives becomes very problematic. You can’t put defenders in spawn long enough to do anything.

C4, for example, takes 2 spawn cycles to explode, meaning defence have to be really really bad not to get a defuse, meaning attack need multiple attempts to get a plant down, and it’s usually luck more than anything else that gets the job done.

Activating the controls on Camden, or getting the EV stated on LB, usually involves lemming rushing the objective, getting it done a bit at a time until eventually the dice falls in your favour and you get it to 100%.

No real sense of achievement because you’ve done it in spite of the game mechanics, not because you used them to do the job the way it’s supposed to be done, attacking as a team, securing an area, covering the objective guy etc.

b. Short spawns encourage rambo behaviour. No need to work with team-mates or play smart, because if you die you’ll be back in the action seconds later.

c. Short spawns makes the Medic revive function fairly useless. Little reward for risking your neck to pick up a team-mate because he’ll be back before you know it anyway.

d. Short spawns makes F/Ops fairly useless, because if you run out of ammo just rambo out, get killed, and you’re back fully stocked within seconds.

etc.

  1. Objectives are poorly designed.

a. EV is too slow, the game can only progress as fast as the EV can move, which makes it seem like it’s dragging.

b. Carry objectives are terrible. The route is away from or towards the other team, making it a meat-grinder at one end or the other. Plus not being able to shoot while carrying puts the attacking team at a big disadvantage, plus having to carry more than one makes it repetitive and boring as well as frustrating.

c. Lack of side objectives, would like to see forward spawns, ET style command posts, constructibles (ladder / scaffolding to access an alternative route etc.)

  1. Small player base. We need way more people here to ensure servers are being used.

  2. Poor quality player base. Too many playing for frags only, and too many obsessed with making this game ET2 / ET:QW2 and not enough focussed on what a mass market might want. i.e. too many vested interests. This could be lightened by opening up the game to more players as well. Too much influence from too few people, me included!


(Volcano) #7

Press F to plant c4/repair all that jazz really kills it for me
carryable objectives switch it to a backpack so the player swings it onto his back and then has both hands free to shoot
EV is as slow as a wet week knock it up a few gears
spawn times
pretty much what kendle has said really


(BomBaKlaK) #8

yes the press “F” or press “E” option just kill me to … look like playing a console game


(BomBaKlaK) #9

[QUOTE=Kendle;446157]I find myself now only playing a few rounds then leaving. It’s not so much boredom though as frustration.

  1. Spawn times are too short.

Short spawn times have one advantage: they get you back into the action sooner, which is supposedly necessary to grab the attention of today’s “must have it all right now” generation of gamers (love to see the research that suggests this is the case however).

But short spawns also have a number of serious disadvantages:

a. Completing objectives becomes very problematic. You can’t put defenders in spawn long enough to do anything.

C4, for example, takes 2 spawn cycles to explode, meaning defence have to be really really bad not to get a defuse, meaning attack need multiple attempts to get a plant down, and it’s usually luck more than anything else that gets the job done.

Activating the controls on Camden, or getting the EV stated on LB, usually involves lemming rushing the objective, getting it done a bit at a time until eventually the dice falls in your favour and you get it to 100%.

No real sense of achievement because you’ve done it in spite of the game mechanics, not because you used them to do the job the way it’s supposed to be done, attacking as a team, securing an area, covering the objective guy etc.

b. Short spawns encourage rambo behaviour. No need to work with team-mates or play smart, because if you die you’ll be back in the action seconds later.

c. Short spawns makes the Medic revive function fairly useless. Little reward for risking your neck to pick up a team-mate because he’ll be back before you know it anyway.

d. Short spawns makes F/Ops fairly useless, because if you run out of ammo just rambo out, get killed, and you’re back fully stocked within seconds.

etc.

  1. Objectives are poorly designed.

a. EV is too slow, the game can only progress as fast as the EV can move, which makes it seem like it’s dragging.

b. Carry objectives are terrible. The route is away from or towards the other team, making it a meat-grinder at one end or the other. Plus not being able to shoot while carrying puts the attacking team at a big disadvantage, plus having to carry more than one makes it repetitive and boring as well as frustrating.

c. Lack of side objectives, would like to see forward spawns, ET style command posts, constructibles (ladder / scaffolding to access an alternative route etc.)

  1. Small player base. We need way more people here to ensure servers are being used.

  2. Poor quality player base. Too many playing for frags only, and too many obsessed with making this game ET2 / ET:QW2 and not enough focussed on what a mass market might want. i.e. too many vested interests. This could be lightened by opening up the game to more players as well. Too much influence from too few people, me included![/QUOTE]

agreed with all this things !


(potty200) #10

A few simple fixes from my point of view:

  • Auto Shuffle after each MAP. This would prevent stacking, as I have previously stated, there are a few players/teams who stack the hell out of the server.
  • SPAWN TIMES Can we please please please try 30 second defending and 20 second attacking team spawn timers? Also, can we add a timer so we DO NOT MISS out spawn time?
  • Objectives, can we go back to the auto pickup / auto deliver? I dislike the objetives so much right now and it kills the maps on London Bridge and Camden :frowning:
  • Not enough people on the servers! It’s the same old faces day in day out. We need to get fresh meat in and try KEEP them playing. While friends of alpha players would be a nice idea, surely a random pick of the people who have bought packs might be a better option?
  • Be able to spec your team mates while you are waiting to spawn!
  • More people to come talk with us on teamspeak when playing! It actually makes a huge difference in regards to the “fun” aspect. Everyone gets to know each other more and it feels like you’re playing with “friends” rather than just other people.

There are a few things i’d like that would take a little more effort:

  • Removing of the EV / Drastically changing the way it is. (slow, ages to build, ages to destroy, can’t move past it, can’t jump on it/over it, too long of a route around the map)
  • Add a progression through each map. Like ranks or something. I know you are enabling unlockables as you gain xp in maps right now but soemthing that says/gives you a medal for being best medic ect ect.

Main thing for me right now is spawn times and lack of people!


(Kendle) #11

In short, 2 things you could do right now:

  1. 30 / 20 spawns.

  2. Give us all a couple of keys to invite friends. You’d vastly increase the player base and we’d all be happier playing with friends than with strangers no doubt.

Pretty please :smiley:


(potty200) #12
  1. Poor quality player base. Too many playing for frags only, and too many obsessed with making this game ET2 / ET:QW2 and not enough focussed on what a mass market might want. i.e. too many vested interests. This could be lightened by opening up the game to more players as well. Too much influence from too few people, me included!

One of the best points I have seen on these forums. This, however, is not a reason I find the game “un-fun” over time. We do need more people from other games who are NOT Splash Damage fans though!


(BomBaKlaK) #13

yes but due to the system this people will not come ! they don’t want to pay 120 bucks to play a game they don’t know nothing about.
And I dont want DB turn to a COD like because COD fans want a game like the one they like.
same for SD fans but I think they know a bit better where to go, and cause that’s SD fan playing SD games since years I think they deserve a bit more than some others.


(potty200) #14

yes but due to the system this people will not come ! they don’t want to pay 120 bucks to play a game they don’t know nothing about.
And I dont want DB turn to a COD like because COD fans want a game like the one they like.
same for SD fans but I think they know a bit better where to go, and cause that’s SD fan playing SD games since years I think they deserve a bit more than some others.

But they would help make this game appeal to the mass market. Not saying we want another COD type game or BF game. I want an objective shooter where you don’t have to camp every spot to get a kill. But their feedback is as good as anybodies I feel!


(maxxxxlol) #15

Most probably already been said, but this is my personal list that makes the game not fun.

movement:

speed in general
strafe slower than back/forward etc

shooting:

rof
crouch does nothing for accuracy
ADS not enough either
headshots need to be rewarded more. if that means slower rof but more damage for headshots or something idk.
Aiming just doesn’t feel right.

Classes:

Balance. don’t like the idea of weak med, op soldier etc.
Having to press F to plant. So frustrating. RTCW did it perfect. dynamite plant anywhere, arm with pliers.
Having no ammo racks helped the fops, so wouldn’t mind trying no health regen.

Maps:

spawn times need to change
EV needs to speed up
having to press F to pick up objective and not being able to shoot then having to press F to transmit.
D spawns need to move around to give a chance of getting back the objective etc.
Camden is the best of a bad bunch but feels like its one objective to long.

HUD:

Please for the love of god clean up the hud. Elevator objective on whitechapel as attackers for example. Needs to move to the limbo menu or something


(Winnie) #16

_ map design: too controlled, need more tricks jump, ladders, elevators …
_ need spawn waves: in attack and defense, objective and stop watch … Perhaps it should spend a little more.
_ escort datacores: this objective is not perfect, too fast transmission. Not possible interception of canary wharf.
_ escort EV: road too long, the vehicle speed is too slow.
_ RoF too fast, TTK too short, need reload + run, maybe fire + run.
_ assault class too strong vs other class… maybe let him his firepower but give him more speed penalty and move.
_ need a better balance between the various weapons and the various class.
_ need more players.
_ need a vote menu for balance stack game, or unbalanced game.
_ need more capturable spawn.
_ sensor grenade looks too wall-hack, maybe just mark the enemy on mini-map, like radar on etqw.
_ I don’t like C4 animation, prefer etqw plant


(BomBaKlaK) #17

to be blocked during a plant is dam frustrating !!! and that dam “press E” make me sick (console gameplay)
I really prefer the good old plant system !
Brink, oops sry DB plant & diffuse system is a massive fail to me ! :stuck_out_tongue:


(potty200) #18

Forgot one of the BIGGEST points actually!

Please change the revive shield to protected the medic reviving. I NEVER revive for the reason that 9 times out of ten you’ll both die anyway :\ If you agree with this please help voice my concern!


(Humate) #19

Its an alpha so Im not expecting to “taste the magic” atm… but there are certainly things that prompt me to not log into the launcher. Most have been mentioned already.


(Kl3ppy) #20

[QUOTE=potty200;446177]Forgot one of the BIGGEST points actually!

Please change the revive shield to protected the medic reviving. I NEVER revive for the reason that 9 times out of ten you’ll both die anyway :\ If you agree with this please help voice my concern![/QUOTE]

Yes, pls give us the revive shield so we can “test” it :wink: