DB Design Doc: In-Session Progression System


(Anti) #1

Hey folks,

One of the things we want to do more often with you guys on the VIP forum is to give you early access to some of our design docs, so you can view systems we’re discussing implementing to the game and provide suggestions or feedback on them before the work even starts.

I’m posting the first one of these today, a section of our design doc for a match-long progression system which is probably best described as smaller version of ET and ETQW’s campaign rewards.

This is a system we’re keen to pursue as we believe it’ll add goals for casual players when playing, as well as add meaningful highlight moments to competition matches of DB.

Please bear in mind that this is just a design, everything about it is based on theory and there has obviously been no balancing, so don’t worry too much about any values or numbers you see in it :slight_smile:

Let us know what you think about the design, as well as if you think this process is useful. We’d love to get your feedback.

Anti

In-session Progression
The In-session Progression mechanic for Dirty Bomb has several goals:

[ul]
[li]Reward players with new abilities and upgrades during a gameplay session[/li][li]Add ‘highlight’ moments to matches[/li][li]Add additional unique elements to each character[/li][li]Provide another avenue by which players can demonstrate their skill[/li][/ul]

The system aims to be somewhat similar to mechanics such as buying guns in Counter-Strike, buying items in MOBA games or picking up power-ups.

Progression Tree
In-session Progression takes the form of a short progression tree. As the player earns XP they progress up the tree, unlocking abilities and upgrades as they achieve set milestones.

The lower level upgrades unlocked on the tree are passive improvements to that character’s specific abilities, improving things like its range, cool down rate, power or damage. Once the player unlocks these upgrades they are retained for the rest of that session.

At the top of the tree are class specific abilities that are shared by all characters of that class. These are high powered but limited use abilities that should require skilled play by the player to use well. Items such as Rocket Launchers, Revive Grenades and Mortars will make up these high tier abilities and will be powerful enough to potentially affect the course of a match.

All of these upgrades, and progression towards them, are limited to the duration of the match session. At the start of each match progress towards them is reset and the payer starts again.

Unlocking Upgrades
Items on the tree are unlocked when the player meets an XP threshold.

The initial progression tree for the game has three tiers:

[ul]
[li]Tier 1[/li][LIST]
[li]Is a passive upgrade for one of that character’s abilities[/li][li]Is unlocked at around the three to five minute mark of a match (currently when player has earned 1000 XP)[/li][li]The upgrade is automatically unlocked[/li][li]Once unlocked it remains for the rest of the match[/li][li]Once Tier 1 is unlocked it is available across all classes/characters for that player for the rest of the match[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]

[ul]
[li]Tier 2[/li][LIST]
[li]Is a passive upgrade for one of that character’s abilities[/li][li]Is unlocked at around the 7-9 minute mark of a match (currently when player has earned 2000 XP)[/li][li]The upgrade is automatically unlocked[/li][li]Once unlocked it remains for the rest of the match[/li][li]Once Tier 2 is unlocked it is available across all classes/characters for that player for the rest of the match[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]

[ul]
[li]Tier 3[/li][LIST]
[li]Is an additional active ability/item for that class[/li][li]Is unlocked around the 10-12 minute mark of a match (currently when the player earns 4000XP)[/li][li]Is unlocked by pressing B (default)[/li][li]Is equipped by pressing B once unlocked (default)[/li][li]Has limited ammo/uses, is lost after this limit is reached[/li][li]Can be re-earned by getting another 2000XP. This starts being earned the moment the player has bought the tier 3 item[/li][li]The tier 3 unlock cannot be transferred to another class. Once it has been unlocked by pressing B switching class will cause it to be lost[/li][li]Progress towards tier 3 can be transferred to another class. If an Engineer has 3800XP and switched to Medic then he’ll retain that progress towards tier 3 on the Medic[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]

Top Tier Abilities
The following is a list of the top tier progression abilities for each class:

Rocket Launcher
The Rocket Launcher is the tier 3 ability for the Soldier class. It does very high damage over a large blast radius. The Rocket launcher comes with a single round, once fired the weapon is lost from the player’s inventory.

When a Rocket Launcher is bought, either by a friendly or enemy player, an audio cue should be played to either team warning them that one is active on the field.

Revive Grenade
The tier 3 ability for the Medic class is the Revive Grenade. This is a grenade that when it detonates revives all incapacitated teammates within its blast radius with full health. It has a large blast radius but only a single use, once thrown it is removed from the player’s inventory.

When a Revive Grenade is bought, either by a friendly or enemy player, an audio cue should be played to either team warning them that one is active on the field.

Portable MG Nest
The Portable MG Nest is an upgrade for the Engineer class and is deployed by the Engineer in the same way to Engineer 02’s Turret.

It is an MG nest like those placed in levels but is stand alone, provides good cover and is considerably more powerful. Players have to man the MG nest for it to operate, there is no automated fire.

The MG nest can be destroyed by opposition players but has a considerable amount of health and is very durable. The player on the MG nest cannot be easily shot at all as it also provides cover, the opposing teams’ goal should always be to either destroy the MG nest itself or flank it to kill the user.

Unlike the Engineer’s Turret the MG nest cannot be reclaimed and moved. Once destroyed the MG nest is lost for good. The same movement penalties applied to Engineers when deploying their Turret are also applied to MG nest deployment.

When an MG nest is deployed the opposing team should be warned via an audio cue that one is active on the field.

Supply Station
The Supply Station is the tier 3 reward for the Fire Support class. It is a fairly large supply box/crate from which friendly players can receive ammo and grenade refills.

The Supply Station has an infinite supply of these refills, a large health pool and part of its structure also acts as cover. The aim for opposing teams should be to actively seek out and destroy an enemy Supply Station.

Refilling of ammo at the station happens instantly on a player getting within range of the Station, with the player having all their weapons filled to their ammo capacity.

Refilling of grenades has a short cool down, with the Station only handing these out to players who have no grenades every two seconds.

Once deployed the Supply Station cannot be moved. If destroyed it is lost for good.

When a Supply Station is deployed both teams should be warned via an audio cue that one is active on the field.

UAV
The tier 3 upgrade for the Recon class is the UAV. Once activated a UAV drone is placed in the sky above the map and spots any enemy units for the next 15 seconds.

The spotting range is map wide and causes the enemies to be marked on the HUD and on the mini-map. Enemies hiding in buildings will not be revealed as long as they stay indoors.

Once used the UAV is lost from the Recon player’s inventory.

When a UAV is deployed both teams should be notified one is active above the battlefield.


(Volcano) #2

What is the range of the revive nade? I don’t think it should full heal tbh it would destory balance. Yay for panzer . Are you planning on giving the recon smoke nades again? What are the passive perks or am i blind.

I really like this idea cheers for posting it


(Maca) #3

When checking the scoreboard, there should be an icon next to the score the person has, so everyone can see quickly who have earned those two passive buffs, and eventually the third.
I would be liking the idea of passive buffs, if the game was more barebones in the beginning. If the characters start the game like they are currently, with the possibility of ammo drops and health regen, adding even more buffs is just going to convolute the thing.
If you want to have these passive buffs, please make the start of the game more “hardcore”. My main point is to keep it simple, having passive buffs won’t necessarily destroy simplicity, but they will if the base isn’t very simple. So get rid of ammo drops and other “default buffs” if you want to add these buffs.

As a sidenote, I appreciate this new form of communication between developer and testers.


(ailmanki) #4

cons:

  • it promotes a selfish playstyle, unless there is another mechanic giving extra bonus when doing teamwork, like 2 guys shooting same enemy.
  • the better a player is, the better stuff he gets, which in turn makes him again better… “something is wrong”
  • ragequit, after collecting all the XP, you spend it for the Powerup, which has a one time use, and good chance that you screw up. Why should you screw up? Because its a Powerup you never have used - since its seldom - and it has only a one time use. So great moment for frustration, since either you use it correct - or not.

pros:

  • addictive system, which makes one want to become better, to get the powerups before the enemy does
  • simple for the player to understand, tier 1, 2, 3 … powerups for each class…

There are surely more positive sides to it, but I can currently only think of the bad ones.
One more thing,

[ul]
[li]Add ‘highlight’ moments to matches
[/li]> [li]Provide another avenue by which players can demonstrate their skill[/ul][/li]
There is no need for SD to tell a story or to make highlights.
The player himself makes the story, and the highlight should not be the moment where he gets 2000XP. It should be the moment where he does somehting which has impact on the outcome of the game. This should even be shown at the end of the match. Some kind of retrospective, as they do in sports tv.

[ul]
[li]Add additional unique elements to each character
[/li]> [/ul]

This seems to be not covered, unless tier 1-3 is the idea for this.
Probably I get this point wrong, but it would be nice to have unique elements, which stay across matches. Similar to Brink, but Less is more - in this case.


(Maca) #5

This can be viewed as a con, but it can be also viewed as a pro. Some people say that in old skool games there were those features that required mastery, and that often they weren’t easy to even obtain so it really pumped you up to learn how to use them effectively. Sure some might ragequit, but one might say good riddance to people who get angry about a little challenge like this.
Also yes, I believe Anti meant that the passive buffs and perhaps even the third thing can vary from merc to merc, bringing more individuality to the mercs.

But here’s why I came to post here again so soon. Here is what I believe to be a SOLID reason to get rid of “default buffs” like auto-healthregen and ammo drops if this thing is put in the game:
Imagine a team, which for the first half plays pretty regularly, but they make sure that they get the level 3 as an assault, so suddenly there is a team that is only assault, everyone having panzerfaust. They play rather cleverly, so that they use the fausts one by one completely shutting the enemy. And they succeed in staying alive to panzer the enemy wave after wave and clean the rest with other guns.
Now, if there were no auto-healthregen or ammo drops, I say good to them, they deserved it, it wasn’t easy to stay alive even with those panzers and with the lack of ammo. BUT, if they had auto-healthregen and ammo drops, pulling a thing like that off is WAY, WAY TOO EASY.
In conclusion: get rid of auto-healthregen, ammo drops and any other “default buffs” like that. Then you can put passive buffs and third level items in to the game


(iwound) #6

This is great to give us a heads-up to what to expect and to ask what do we think.
my reaction to Rocket Launcher was this.:eek:
the amount of times i’ve thought i could just do with just a little more pep. nice.

regarding an overall thought is that 1 time use only for tier 3 means approx 3 uses in a map for a good xp player. my initial thought is i would haggle for more uses maybe 5 overall by reducing its cost or increase the amount of time you can use it when bought. im leaning atm to reduced cost. if you mess up tough. but in a lot of cases you would only use it twice.

16 players each having at least 2-3 uses = 40ish uses around 4 a minute over the 2nd half of the map, over the last 10 mins,

that actually sounds good. but then im always going to argue for more lead.
but the principle is sound. a way of introducing game changing weapons without them being spammed. i like.

so you mention RL and mortars but you have typoed and missed out flamethrower which is obviously just a slip.:smiley: i forgive you . please insert now.

if you want ideas for upgrade weapons. ask us lot. can i have my mini robot crawler mine now. that seeks out a particular player or just the enemy. i call it the execution spider mine or E.S.M - for a one time use it would be worth it. just as long as i hear the screams. (built in mic)


(Anti) #7

The system really shouldn’t allow you to mass these abilities though, having them is almost a special event in itself. We need to get the XP scale right but the awarding of these should be pretty infrequent, maybe once per match for players who are doing well.

It shouldn’t be a case of making the good guys better, using these abilities well should require skill in themselves.

The single use of each of these is up to debate, it might be a case of limited ammo rather than single use. That’s just something we need to consider as we test and balance it.


(Anti) #8

If it’s not used as an upgrade it can still go onto a new character :slight_smile:


(iwound) #9

You must spread some Reputation
around before giving it to Anti again.

:eek::eek: request for bigger eye poppin smiley.


(rookie1) #10

too much to read to me rigth now (been working) …but anxious to read all these …ty anti


(maxxxxlol) #11

Agree with maca. If you are adding passive buffs, I think you need make the starting game more bare bones. eg. ammo packs only give 1 mag, tier 1 gives 2. etc


(Shiv) #12

my thoughts on the abilities.
Soldier = one big bang … probably takes out the ev or drops a few guys making a rush (best outcome)
Seems to be like a more instant fops take down. Which is nice as long as its rare enough that people wait to use it for the right moment (could provide epic last second stops on objectives… or frustrating halts to game)

Medic = Meh? seems really reeaaally situational, you need your team mates to be in a position you cant heal as standard… where they arent gibbed… you hope they dont tap out when you throw it andddd they would need to be in a position where there would be benefit reviving them.
So 1 maybe 2 revives in a really situational environment per 2k xp… nah, i would grind xp on medic then swap to one of the other active abilities.

Engy = Nice for defence and for holding an attack point, I am assuming you want turrets to stay relativly low kill so as this is static the damage would need to be pretty hefty or they would get naded (ooh panzer!) pretty fast. A few lined around an objective could be pretty funny.

Fops = Hellloooo medic crate grenade spam, You probably want a pretty hefty timer on grenade refill that resets on death. Otherwise I will setup around the corner from a choke (whitechapel next to the church springs to mind) and just throw all day, 2 people throwing grenades is 1 thrown every second, ish.
Would be nice to be able to re-fill grenades and bring ammo refill up to the front as a defensive help.

Spec ops = Sounds nice, a lot of ephasis on shooting first atm already. And wont it be completely useless on some areas with large indoor pieces, I guess thats the point, dont use it then XD

Gives you guys a new output for character content tho which will be cool :)… “NEW BADASS CHARACTER WITH NUKESPLOSION ON DEATH ABILITY coming soon!”


(Loffy) #13

Very, very interesting and promising. I am glad that we have a lot of time to test, polish, and optimize the use of all these new toys.

My first feedback: I think that only one useage of the Revive Nade (for the medic) will be too little. As I understand it, the medic will only get one? (Or maybe I missed some vital info here.) Nevertheless, as you say Anti, we will test it and surely there will be adjustments.

(Rocket launcher, omg omg omg.)


(rookie1) #14

Portable MG Nest. can they be repairable?
UAV. can they be destroyed?

if a player crash or quit for few minutes and rejoin will he lose all XP .?


(Violator) #15

Thanks for posting this :slight_smile: Sounds great, and encouraging that they are per map only. Will we also have campaigns in the future, e.g. over 3 maps, and the upgrades/XP could persist across the campaign a-la ET/QW? My £0.02:

Revive nade: I take it it won’t heal enemies ;). I can see it as something which would require a certain situation where your entire team died in one place, but how about making it a ‘healing zone’ that lasts for say 10 seconds which heals any teammates at a certain rate (not instant) while they are within the radius. Would be useful for defence + regrouping on offence. Wouldn’t make the players invulnerable (ie heal rate would always be less than damage rate).

Supply Station: I think that the nade supply should be finite, and I think the cooldown should be a lot longer than 2s, testing will find the right balance.

UAV: This doesn’t seem that useful for just 15 seconds? (heartbeat sensors last for 30 and usually cover the current combat area + detect players in buildings afaik?). I would up the time and/or make it destroyable.


(Dormamu) #16

At the moment i sense that some will stack up in one team to achieve those Tier 3 bling. This will create unbalance matches and frustration.
I would personally switch the focus from player to team, Tier 3 awarded to the whole team if they work together but only one of each class awarded to whoever has the higher xp earned for that class. Make it a hud poll bar who needs to be filled by Teamwork Action Points In a Round :smiley: so u don’t have the same poll as xp/coins.
If a team skill is greater than the other, they will earn xp for Tier 3 unlocks at a slower rate, to prevent stacking up and ensure balance :smiley:


(iwound) #17

That would create a situation where the whole team has a bonus weapon all at the same time. As opposed to spread out as each player reaches their xp target.

I think all the new tech are great ideas plus some goldies. Maybe it will be possible to buy a new gadget in the future of a similar strength that doesnt gain an advantage just presents a gruesome death in a different way.


(Scrupus) #18

Interesting stuff, it’s a lot of details so have to absorb it a bit. But I always loved the campaign progression in ET/QW so good to see this coming.

But - I’m a little bit worried about about all these progression changes during a single match - do you really mean all this pr. map only??

I kind of feel it’s enough other stuff to keep track of during a match, and fear that it will be just too much for many players to handle so many changes in abilities during one single match.

Maybe I’m just too old, but that’s my initial gut feeling :slight_smile:

Would rather like to see this progression over several maps, like the old campaign system - or for a full server session, no matter how many maps you play in a row (but reset if you leave server for more than an hour or something like that).

The suggested abilities and upgrades looks great though!

btw sidequestion: what happened to battlesense system, did you ditch that completely for DB? I kind of miss that system too, it made me a bit more focused on staying alive, ie. slightly more careful. I can understand if you don’t want that kind of thinking in DB but would be nice to hear what your thoughts have been about it. I don’t think we had battlesense in Brink either.

But all in all, lot’s of good stuff here, and thanks for sharing your ideas!


(Mustang) #19

Much like ailmanki my immediate reaction is to spot out all the cons.

However thinking along the same lines as Dormamu perhaps many of these cons can be negated by focusing on making sure players that work as a team receive the unlocks faster than those that don’t.

Teamplay based XP buffs/multipliers spring to mind, which could be anything from friendly in the vicinity to kill assists, more ephesis on XP for things like giving out ammo/health/revives, etc.


(SockDog) #20

I’ll throw out my regular scepticism of XP driving this stuff along with making the better players better, but it’s clear from past discussions that alternatives are going to receive number twos from considerable altitude. I just hope that doing this over such a compacted period doesn’t overly encourage class selection on specific maps to maximise the XP earning and so score upgrades faster.

I also recall a lot of players becoming confused over the temporary unlocks in ETQW, namely they felt cheated by the game like it stole their progression when the next campaign started. Is this going to be a concious issue during implementation? Would XP/Coins/Store unlock more persistent gear to counteract this feeling?

I do prefer the idea of keeping this short though, so that people joining are able to balance out relatively quickly rather than needing to wait until a full campaign is complete or they’ve put in an hour to catch up. It’s not fun to even feel disadvantaged and given an ability I’d probably just want to join a server that has people starting on the same level as me.

What about the possibility of keying certain upgrades to total team XP or points of play during a match rather than individual XP?

Could the tier 3 items be made available only at spawn (similar to CS buy zone)? You’d then have to possibly sacrifice a viable position to ben

What would the impact be in allowing classes a selection of these items which aren’t limited to their respective class. Would a team of various classes all sporting a one fire panzer just be total madness?

If someone lays down a MG or Supply crate is it persistent when they change class or does it function like other dropables?