UI/HUD: Alternate class feedback


(dutchmeat) #1

When I started te game, I wasn’t aware of alternate classes untill someone ingame(prolly morka) owned my behinds with a shotgun.
It wasn’t untill that very moment I found out about the SHIFT+Fx key combination to activate the alternate version of the selected class.
I would like to see some visual indication of the posibility of activating alternate versions. I have seen some games having two class(version) icons stacked behind each other, and showing the key combination to switch them.

Sorry if I have missed something in the vid tutorial or anywhere else, but I couldn’t find any reference to this at all.


(mitsuhiko) #2

That’s because that’s debug functionality at the moment :slight_smile:


(Smooth) #3

When you’re actually in-game you’ll only be able to select one character for each class type. You’ll select these 5 characters outside of the game before you connect to a server.

We currently include debug commands to allow people to switch between characters of the same class as we don’t have this functionality ready yet but we still want feedback on the 2nd set of characters.


(tokamak) #4

Oh I love that.


(DarkangelUK) #5

Oh… hmm… I think I prefer having the choice. For example, on Whitechapel I go the SMG Medic so I can hit at a distance, when we switch to the chapel itself and close quarters fighting I then switch to the shotgun medic, same for the repair stage as well then back to SMG for the final stage. I guess it all evens out really as the SG guys are at a disadvantage on the open areas and the SMG guys are getting one-shotted at close range inside… still, it’s frustrating being at the disadvantage and not being able to do anything about it.


(H0RSE) #6

Sounds like an issue of wanting to have your cake an eat it too.

I’ve seen this complaint about 1000 times on the internet - players wanting the option to be able to deal with any situation at all times. Seems to me, like these players don’t like having to make choices and take the good with bad - they’d prefer to simply always have access to the good. Even in your example, the choice is there. You are not bottlenecked or “forced” into a disadvantage. Doesn’t the shotgun Medic have an SMG or machine-pistol as a secondary weapon? Doesn’t that make up for (at least in part) for not having an SMG as a primary? Even so, you could always select a different class with different weapons. It’s like the saying goes - “you can’t please everyone.” There are basically 3 options here:

  1. Give classes only one fixed loadout.
  2. Give classes multiple loadouts to choose from, but the one they choose is fixed.
  3. Give classes multiple loadouts that can be changed freely.

No mater which option you go with, there are going to be fanboys and haters, which means you need to figure out which option is the most fun for the most people, while also allowing the game to maintain the gameplay goal the devs have set out to create. Personally, I am a fan of either choice, but like I said, whatever they chose to go with, it will alter the gameplay.


(shirosae) #7

Seems odd to have the classes and not allow for switching on respawn. Can I ask what the thinking is behind that?


(Humate) #8

You have access to all classes still.
You just cant switch the character youve selected for each class.


(H0RSE) #9

It works in RPG’s and other shooters - SMNC for instance. I just think the concept is foreign to many here, so they are skeptical.


(SockDog) #10

Come on. Make choices and take the good with the bad. This is a game, it should be fun 100% of the time. What’s good about getting halfway through a map and then realising the decision (guess) you made 10 minutes ago was wrong and hey, the next 10 minutes is going to suck. Wait, maybe we can just end the map at that point and start over?

Yup. full holds are unbearable but committing to loadouts and hoping the 15 other players make selections that work to your advantage is deep man. :confused:


(H0RSE) #11

And for some people, that comes with making choices and living with them, rather than having all options available to them all the time. It’s funny how you treat your idea of “fun” as fact.

What’s good about getting halfway through a map and then realising the decision (guess) you made 10 minutes ago was wrong and hey, the next 10 minutes is going to suck.

This is a moot point. The real determining factor comes to player skill, so even if players had access to anything and everything at all times, they could still be in for 10 minutes (or more) that are going to suck.

Yup. full holds are unbearable but committing to loadouts and hoping the 15 other players make selections that work to your advantage is deep man. :confused:

Full holds will happen regardless, as will hoping other players make choices that work. I really like where you said work to “your” advantage…it’s a team-based game…


(shirosae) #12

[QUOTE=Humate;410919]You have access to all classes still.
You just cant switch the character youve selected for each class.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I get that. Just seems that needing to decide whether I want to be shotgun woman or turret man before I know what’s needed in the game is a bit odd. Wondering if it’s down to F2P model or something.


(Humate) #13

soz my bad!


(SockDog) #14

[QUOTE=H0RSE;410929]And for some people, that comes with making choices and living with them, rather than having all options available to them all the time. It’s funny how you treat your idea of “fun” as fact.

I live with choices I make all day long, it’s unavoidable. This is probably why I find the idea of mixing play and fun with restriction and disappointment somewhat strange.

This is a moot point. The real determining factor comes to player skill, so even if players had access to anything and everything at all times, they could still be in for 10 minutes (or more) that are going to suck.

You’re compounding player skill imbalance with a random factor of whether they made a good decision before the match.

Full holds will happen regardless, as will hoping other players make choices that work. I really like where you said work to “your” advantage…it’s a team-based game…

Hence the 15 other players part. You know because the decisions of 7 of them will also impact your game.

It’s down to people finding this as “deep” and “challenging” while also seeing choice as being “simplistic” and “easy”.


(DarkangelUK) #15

There’s already been a gajillion discussions on the forum that are for and against this idea which I’m hoping SD have read and taken into consideration. I’m firmly against it and can only assume it’s something to monetize at the end of the day.


(SockDog) #16

They can always remove the shooting part and just create a mix up between barbie doll simulation and positive message reinforcement.

“MY, YOUR SOLDIER LOOKS MEAN. YOU’RE AWESOME!” <ping ping ping>

“INSERT $10 TO FEEL COMPLETE”


(zenstar) #17

While I’d be ok with selecting class loadouts before connection I’m also the type of person that doesn’t change my loadouts based on maps. I certainly can see how some people would like to tweak their loadouts to constantly counter the current map (or even down to countering the current fight). If that makes people happy then let them do it.
If everything is properly balanced the only real difference it’ll make is that they’ll have more fun because they’re playing how they want to.

And I think the concept of “making people live with their decisions” is a bit silly. Especially when those people can just disconnect if they feel put upon and that hurts the rest of the server more than letting them change loadouts.

If your idea of fun is living with your decisions then you can stick to assigning only 1 loadout per class and working it. I don’t see why your idea of fun should restrict someone else from assigning 2 loadouts per class so that they can change.

As has been stated: you can’t treat one version of fun as fact, so having more options is going to allow more overall fun as if you don’t want them you can not exercise them. If you’re too weak willed to do that then I’m afraid you’re in a very small percentage of people that will never be fully pleased and while you can cater to as wide an audience as possible you’re not going to be able to cater to everyone.


(H0RSE) #18

[QUOTE=zenstar;410991]
If your idea of fun is living with your decisions then you can stick to assigning only 1 loadout per class and working it.[/quote]
RTCW, W:ET, and QW all had one loadout per class, (except for the soldier.) Having one loadout per class is probably the most used mechanic in these types of games.

As has been stated: you can’t treat one version of fun as fact, so having more options is going to allow more overall fun as if you don’t want them you can not exercise them.

Yes…I know this… That is why I offered multiple ways they could go about doing it.

[QUOTE=H0RSE;410915]

  1. Give classes only one fixed loadout.
  2. Give classes multiple loadouts to choose from, but the one they choose is fixed.
  3. Give classes multiple loadouts that can be changed freely.

No mater which option you go with, there are going to be fanboys and haters, which means you need to figure out which option is the most fun for the most people, while also allowing the game to maintain the gameplay goal the devs have set out to create. Personally, I am a fan of either choice, but like I said, whatever they chose to go with, it will alter the gameplay.[/quote]

I never implied that my definition of fun was fact - especially since since I listed multiple choices, and stated I was a fan of all of them - even the options Sock and Dark mentioned. I try to stay objective on issues, so even if I agree with points people bring up, I will still point out where I disagree or where I think the person is flat out wrong.


(DarkangelUK) #19

RtCW, W:ET and QW only had 1 loadout and that was it, had there been other variations then they would have been put to use. That’s completely different from having multiple loadouts available but being denied access to them via concious design choice… had that been the case then I would have made the same feelings known back then as well. I can see more people quitting because they’re stuck in a rut with a bad loadout choice compared to those leaving because they think they have too much choice.


(zenstar) #20

Got to agree with DAUK here.

RTCW, W:ET, and QW are all old and out of date now.
TF2: you can change loadouts between spawns. Halo: you change change loadouts between spawns. I think CoD allows you to too (I’m not sure. not really my game).
Most (popular) multiplayer games have multiple loadouts and let you set up a few variants and let you switch between spawns.
While the ET gameplay is awesome the games are a touch behind the curve in a few areas. This being one of them in my opinion.

Now the extra classes add an extra complexity, but is it too much to ask to have 2 loadouts per class? Most people only play their favourite 2 classes anyway. Some will exclusively play 1 class no matter how badly the team needs them to switch.

Generally I have my “comfortable” loadout and my “experimental” loadout. If I can’t switch back to my comfortable loadout if my experiment is going wrong then I’m not going to experiment. Not experimenting will lead to staleness. Staleness leads to suffering and suffering leads to the dark side! And to other games that allow me to experiment and have fun.

More options mean more fun in general. I’m all for a couple of loadouts per class. It doesn’t need to be every combination of loadouts per class… just a little extra choice.