List of most disturbing gameplay features

(Ashog) #1

Personally currently there are four:

  1. Delay in shooting after the start/end of sprinting (weapon steadying time) - please remove it completely! What purpose can it possibly serve?

  2. Limited strafe and back sprinting speed, also slow sprint accelleration in all directions (forward too) - drastically limits the evasion reaction and (along with the too high current damage of Assault Rifles) leaves you with practically no chance to survive a 1vs1 fight if you saw an enemy 0,5 seconds too late. It very reminds me the gamestyle of CoD / BF / CS - who saw enemy first - wins the fight

  3. Almost no open spaces. Now before throwing tomatoes at me note that Locki said SD is considering implementing more open maps in the future (AFAIK). IMHO such maps don’t really have to be totally open, they just need to iterate some open then closed areas. The quick examples could be Sewer and Meltdown in ETQW

  4. Posibly the worst of all above - have to agree absolutely with Humate in IRC: what was subconciously disturbing me all the time is a definite feeling that an injured (low health) player can’t hold his own (in the current state of game). Here I cite Humate (I hope he doesn’t mind) who put it well in IRC:

<Humate> Smooth: chip dmg is op :frowning:
<Humate> The player with lower hp, cant fight back
<Humate> im assuming thats to do with not being able to dodge very well… since in etqw you could hold your own even with low hp levels

  • and here it is logically aligned with what I mentioned in 1) and 2) - damage of AR’s too high, dodgeability too restricted.

Please let us discuss this because the issues seem very important.

(amazinglarry) #2

[QUOTE=Ashog;409537]
3) Almost no open spaces. Now before throwing tomatoes at me note that Locki said SD is considering implementing more open maps in the future (AFAIK). IMHO such maps don’t really have to be totally open, they just need to iterate some open then closed areas. The quick examples could be Sewer and Meltdown in ETQW

  1. Posibly the worst of all above - have to agree absolutely with Humate in IRC: what was subconciously disturbing me all the time is a definite feeling that an injured (low health) player can’t hold his own (in the current state of game). Here I cite Humate (I hope he doesn’t mind) who put it well in IRC:

<Humate> Smooth: chip dmg is op :frowning:
<Humate> The player with lower hp, cant fight back
<Humate> im assuming thats to do with not being able to dodge very well… since in etqw you could hold your own even with low hp levels

  • and here it is logically aligned with what I mentioned in 1) and 2) - damage of AR’s too high, dodgeability too restricted.

Please let us discuss this because the issues seem very important.[/QUOTE]

As far as the Open Areas are concerned, there are definitely a few of them, although there are counters to them (no idea the map name)… but for example progressing the vehicles after getting both objectives is a pretty open area.

As for feeling that an inured player can’t hold his own? Bail out of the way for a few seconds and you’ll regain hit points. You can get rocked down to 4hp (Lyndon!) and if you find some cover for a few seconds you regen up to 30%? Ish?

I’m sure my math is off a bit… but I was in plenty of situations today where I took some hits… found a nook, healed up and reloaded… jumped back out etc.

I would just like to say… nerf SockDog. He wouldn’t stop killing me regardless, and he took the ‘Core’ map with less than a minute to go.

*23

(Ashog) #3

Well, to me the streets are not the open places as such. There are a lot of obstacles aside the streets to hide and camp. This is ok but you don’t really get the feel of insecurity on them. We need more places like in front of the waterloo station (before you get in to explode 2 containers). The gameplay there is so much fun! Also airstrikes are making much sense and fun there.

Regarding the regen - Smooth mentioned it (regens now up to 50% of full hp) and it really improved things vs. no regen at all, but this is not enough. Injured players still can’t hold their own. Regarding the idea that for holding own the team relies heavily on medics and their teamplay - I agree but I also want to rely on my skill too in such situations, rather than fall back and wait for medic to notice me (if there is any medic in team at all on a typical pub play). The balance is not there yet IMHO.

(INF3RN0) #4

Part of the reason why low hp players feel too vulnerable is partly because we haven’t been playing full games yet. Otherwise it’s the general high weapon firing rate that doesn’t give the low hp player the chance to out play their opponent.

(iwound) #5

i also think that a few wider areas would be good, wether they be in or outdoor.

(Humate) #6

Otherwise it’s the general high weapon firing rate that doesn’t give the low hp player the chance to out play their opponent.

Its mainly to do with movement speed and rate of fire.

edit: also be sure to check it out for yourself - dont take my word for it. :slight_smile:

(Loffy) #7

  1. There is a slight, annoying latency before the first bullet when firing while printing, yes, and that has to be fixed, but surely it is just a pre-alpha-thing, and not intentional.

  2. Yes, FROST and I discussed it earlier on a server this morning - WASD movement is slow, sluggish.

  3. No opinion there atm, although arguments seems valid.

  4. Ditto.

(Rex) #8

In QW you could even kill 3 people or more with 1 Hp, if you were playing it smart.

(tokamak) #9

The delay in shooting after sprinting is not a problem, that ought to be a relevant cost. But I don’t like the momentum in ordinary running.

(tangoliber) #10

I disagree. There isn’t anything objectively wrong with the delay, but I don’t think it necessarily “ought” to be there either. Really just depends on whether the devs think it fits in their game or not. Personally, I think its more fun without it.

(H0RSE) #11

[QUOTE=amazinglarry;409539]
As for feeling that an inured player can’t hold his own? Bail out of the way for a few seconds and you’ll regain hit points. You can get rocked down to 4hp (Lyndon!) and if you find some cover for a few seconds you regen up to 30%? Ish?

I’m sure my math is off a bit… but I was in plenty of situations today where I took some hits… found a nook, healed up and reloaded… jumped back out etc.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think health regen is the right approach to solving this problem. First off, health regen takes time to activate. If you just got done a firefight and sustained damage, and then are seen by a different enemy, you are already at a disadvantage, but the clunky movement and the (current) high damage of the weapons, puts at an even greater one. Fixing the damage scales and movement alleviates the need for health regen to even exist.

On the opposite end, a skilled player could potentially abuse the regen system - fighting off enemies, running to regen, then rinse and repeat. I would rather players have to rely on Medics for ALL their health.

I would remove the delay and also allow sprinting while shooting. At the very least, removing the delay just seems like a no brainier. You already cannot shoot while sprinting, why should there also be a penalty to reaction time after the fact?

(tokamak) #12

To stop sprint/shoot/sprint shenanigans.

(Senethro) #13

I have no business speaking about this as I haven’t even played the alpha yet but I’m going to dive in anyway!

If theres no penalties to sprinting then why have sprinting? Why not just make everyone at sprint speed at all times? If sprinting isn’t significantly different from normal running then its a redundant feature.

As for acceleration and speed in directions not forward, I’m not sure how I feel about that. Its essential for them to be fast in an arena shooter where its individual skill vs. individual skill. Is DB a 1v1 game though? I mean I like going FAST and all but in many games I’ve used speed as a crutch to get myself out of a bad situation that I should have seen coming anyway. Other genres of team game severely punish being out of position. Maybe its time to have a game thats not about runaway pubstar medics playing solo?

(zenstar) #14

You could remove the delay to fire but drop the accuracy. That provides instant shooting while still applying a penalty.
Makes shotguns a little more powerful and short range fighting a slightly better option.
Also makes sniping a little more difficult as more people will be running.

As for the health: maybe it should be an option that can be turned on server side, but I’m of the opinion that the medics are there for health and regen is not the answer. in a good balanced game the medic plays a very important role. if we have health regen and the ability for 2hp guys to kill the entire other team then why bother with medics? (I exaggerated ofc, but it does outline the basic point I’m trying to get across).

(tokamak) #15

I can live with that. A direct response but with a huge spread hike for the first second, that way players feel in control without trivialising sprint.

(tangoliber) #16

Senethro: Well, I’d love to be able to shoot while sprinting (Doom-style…and I’d also love to not have any accuracy penalty when strafing), but I don’t understand what you mean by there being no penalties to sprinting if there is no delay…because you still can’t shoot while sprinting.

I don’t think any stronger penalties than that are necessary… just depends on if we want it to be a faster game, or a more tactical game.

(tokamak) #17

If there’s no delay then there’s no transition between sprinting and shooting. It happens instantly. That means that rather than sprinting being a concious decision you can just keep tapping sprint in between your shots.

(tangoliber) #18

I understand that, but I don’t have a problem with it. Here is how it is in Brink…you can instantly shoot out of a sprint… and there is a delay in going from shooting back to sprinting.

(H0RSE) #19

[QUOTE=Senethro;409675]
If theres no penalties to sprinting then why have sprinting? Why not just make everyone at sprint speed at all times? If sprinting isn’t significantly different from normal running then its a redundant feature.[/quote]
But it is significantly different - you can’t shoot or aim your weapon while doing it. The delay in firing your weapon when coming out of sprint, just seems unnecessary. It actually makes me not want to sprint at all.

(tokamak) #20

If there’s no delay (or spread hike, and I really do prefer that) then it pays to constantly sprint in between shots.

[QUOTE=tangoliber;409700]I understand that, but I don’t have a problem with it. Here is how it is in Brink…you can instantly shoot out of a sprint… and there is a delay in going from shooting back to sprinting.
http://youtu.be/XURo8WfRP0c[/QUOTE]

Actually that may not be too bad. If there’s a delay on only one transition, start or end then it’s okay.