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Thread: Concerning weapons

  1. #1

    Concerning weapons

    I know this has come up time and time again but this really needs to be look into if they decide to make a patch or if Brink 2 goes into development.
    There are some real balancing issues with this game and I hope that Splash Damage take note of this. SMG

    SMGs and light body types: They are way too overpowered, SMGs do way too much damage than they should and this means that light body types are taking on heavies like they are no one's business. SMGs should have a high rate of fire, but do low damage and only be effective at close and medium range, forcing light body types to pick their battles wisely and to always keep moving or provide suppressive fire for other players. They shouldn't really be able to engage in long range combat unless equipped with a light rifle.

    Assault Rifles: The recoil on these weapons are so unpredictable and most of them are practically useless. These weapons are suppose to be very stable making them suitable for medium range combat and long range when using them for range. But most of the Assault rifles are useless at medium and long range and it makes me wonder why they are even there.The only assault rifles that do their job well are the Euston (though this is more of a short range and medium range assault rifle), the rhett and possibly the rocksetdi.

    Heavy weapons and Heavy Body types:
    There are some major problems with this. As a heavy body type I should be able to destroy everyone on the field apart from another heavy and medium and lights that play smartly. But the weapons don't allow that. The Maximus has way too much recoil and its recoil is too unpredictable it makes the weapon useless. The Maximus is suppose to be the medium range heavy weapon so it has to be pretty stable but it has to be the weakest weapon out of the heavy weapons. The Chiznor is my opinion is pretty well balanced though I think it should be a bit more powerful. The Gotlung is still not powerful in my opinion, this should be the ultimate short range and medium range weapon, the weapon that really make light and medium types think twice before messing with a heavy but its still too weak and the spin up doesnt help either. The E-Z Nade is fine how it is I think.
    Also I think Heavy types should have more health as they are suppose to the tanks.

  2. #2
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    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Yemster View Post
    SMGs and light body types: They are way too overpowered, SMGs do way too much damage than they should and this means that light body types are taking on heavies like they are no one's business.
    I essentially said this in my "For the love of.." thread, but was promptly defacated on by the light body SMG sprayers who think that because I use an AR and ironsight, that somehow I'm automatically less skilled than they, but anyhow.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  3. #3

    Re: Concerning weapons

    If you actually took the time to read the responses in your topic and stayed calm and rational, you would see that nobody actually said that. Most of the topic was about whether or not ironsights should be necessary to gameplay. When it was claimed that SD themselves had stated that ADS wouldn't be as beneficial or necessary in Brink, you vehemently denied it in the face of a number of members who had recalled those exact statements. Nobody "defecated" on you. That's more than a bit melodramatic.

    Assault rifles are not useless. As long as you don't spray with them, you can get consistent kills at medium range with hip fire and if you use ADS for long range you'll be able to get kills as well. Especially so against light body types that have no health. I can't really speak for how player skill factors into this, but for the most part I think SMG/light dominance isn't as common as it used to be.

    I agree that there are a number of problems with heavy body types in regards to movespeed. They're too gimped. Personally I'd like to see medium types be able to wall jump as well, and a buff to heavy SMART and movespeed capabilities. But in my opinion a lot of the weapons are in a decent place right now. The game isn't perfectly balanced, but hey.

    Just curious, but what SMGs do you see people (ab)using? A lot of people seem to use the Kross these days, which is funny because I can't imagine how people can do so well with a weapon that does essentially no damage unless it's buffed.

  4. #4

    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by gold163 View Post
    Just curious, but what SMGs do you see people (ab)using? A lot of people seem to use the Kross these days, which is funny because I can't imagine how people can do so well with a weapon that does essentially no damage unless it's buffed.

    Kross is a supremely high Rate of Fire weapon with low spread on small and medium distance, so both facts equalise the lower damage output per bullet but not of an entire magazine.
    Thats the little secret behind the Kross.
    Last edited by donmichelangelo; 16th Dec 2011 at 07:32.

  5. #5

    Re: Concerning weapons

    Don't all the SMGs still have the same rate of fire?

  6. #6

    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    I essentially said this in my "For the love of.." thread, but was promptly defacated on by the light body SMG sprayers who think that because I use an AR and ironsight, that somehow I'm automatically less skilled than they, but anyhow.
    Just to be clear, are you dying a lot at the hands of SMG users and blaming everything else but yourself for this? Just curious is all.

    Shaolin Productions

  7. #7

    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    I essentially said this in my "For the love of.." thread, but was promptly defacated on by the light body SMG sprayers who think that because I use an AR and ironsight, that somehow I'm automatically less skilled than they, but anyhow.
    No-one said that, you stated that the game was supposed to be played a certain way based on nothing but your own preference, and when corrected by those with more knowledge and experience of the game's development and history arrogantly dismissed those corrections out of hand.

    Of course you didn't help your position by preposterously claiming you could compete against top clan players and their SMGs with your AR

    As for whether the game is biased in favour of SMGs that's a no brainer, of course it is. Should it be? Many would say yes. Brink is the latest game from SD whose previous efforts, ET:QW and ET, and the game those were based on, RTCW, were all fast paced shoot from the hip SMG centric games, so it's natural to assume Brink would be as well. In fact much of Brinks design leads to this conclusion even if you're not familiar with those earlier games.

    Why then does Brink even have ARs and Rifles? Good question. I suspect the answer is sales. Games these days, or at least so game developers have convinced themselves, need to have lots of weapons, of many different types, to appeal to the widest possible player base. I don't think SD added ARs to Brink because they expected anyone to compete with them, because I don't think they expected anyone to care, we're all supposed to just run around shooting at stuff and "have fun", not caring whether the guns, or the game, is balanced, or fair, or competitive.
    m00!Kendle

  8. #8

    Re: Concerning weapons

    It's like someone revived one of the threads posted during the week of release.

  9. #9
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    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendle View Post
    No-one said that, you stated that the game was supposed to be played a certain way based on nothing but your own preference..
    Didn't say that at all. My initial point was that SMGs and light body types were an overpowering combination. Moreover, the crux of this foolishness essentially began with Crytical stating the "guns are supposed to shoot without ADS", which is a truth as it is in any FPS but when put into context with what more he and others say, it's essentially an extreme position stating something to the effect of "if you ironsight, you are doomed to fail." In response to that, my point was that ironsighting should stand for something more than it does in the face of the wanton non-ADS sprayers. It was at that point when the cavalry came marching out to defend the sprayers, to which your response above is a continuation.

    Next time, I'd suggest you quote me correctly and completely. I honestly have little time to waste debating matters if you don't hold your end of the bargain up.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  10. #10

    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by tangoliber View Post
    Don't all the SMGs still have the same rate of fire?
    By the look of things they do. I checked Brink Wikia.
    This is a bit of an odd set up really, they should of made the rate of fires on these guns different. Guns like the Carb 9 or the Bulpdaun should have a slower rate of fire since the Carb 9 is the strongest and the Bulpdaun is the uber accurate SMG

    @gold163
    Most of the ARs are useless and to be honest for medium range combat I would rather use ADS than hip fire but this is not possible unless I equip a Rhett or a Euston since these are a lot more stable compared to the other assault rifles. Although if the recoil was more predictable and less drastic then all of the assault rifles would be a lot easier to use.
    But yes the light dominance has toned down from before but the heavies are still walking targets unfortunately.

  11. #11

    Re: Concerning weapons

    I feel like the ARs wouldn't be so useless if the spread circle didn't take so long to retract. Even if you burst you reach maximum inaccuracy very quickly, while SMG users can hold the button down and not suffer too much of an accuracy drawback. This alone seems to make bursting, the optimal strategy with automatic ARs, still ineffective in comparison. It also makes it so that with the Rokstedi and FRKN, doing anything but sniping with ADS won't hit anything so you're boned for close encounters or even medium encounters using hipfire.

    In my opinion, even though Brink is decidedly SMG-centric there is no good reason for more than half the arsenal to be so ineffective by comparison. The initial accuracy for assault rifles should be tightened at least to that of SMGs so that it's actually possible to hit things from long range (with at least the first bullet fired going through the center of the crosshair) , and if the recoil isn't touched then the spread should retract more quickly so that it's actually possible to burst at medium ranges without wasting the majority of your magazine (in hipfire of course).

    Other quality of life buffs I think should happen: Tighten the spread on the Mossington a bit, reduce the recoil on the Ritchie a little, buff Tokmak/Kalt damage, and give all pistols the same spread-circle retraction buff that I suggested for ARs. I don't think any weapon should take that long to return to optimum accuracy after firing, actually. Drognav and Barnett should get some reserve ammo and reload time buffs. I can't really say anything about the heavy weapons since I don't play Heavy, but I get the feeling they need buffs to accuracy too, and the Lobster really needs buffs so that it's actually a viable choice without being too annoying of a weapon.

    Furthermore, please normalize ammo counts. That is, don't make it so that if you choose to go with a high-capacity magazine you're stuck with like 1/6th of a mag on your last reload. It should be an even number of full magazines! This goes for drum mags on some weapons too, although those are usually better about even ammo counts on certain weapons.

    The problem with body types is easily solved, in my opinion. Give Mediums the ability to walljump and give Heavies the same SMART capabilities that Mediums have right now with preferably a small buff to movespeed and maybe even health. SMART's animations should be faster too, but most of the problems regarding SMART's usability stem from the linear map design. It's just not advantageous to take a side route in most cases. The SMART animations take so long that it's usually faster to just non-stop sprint to where you're headed.

    Actually, do body types move at different speeds when not sprinting? I feel as if they should all use a normalized walking speed, with the only differences being in sprint speed, or the other way around. Picking heavy is a huge disadvantage just because it takes so long to get anywhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    Didn't say that at all. My initial point was that SMGs and light body types were an overpowering combination. Moreover, the crux of this foolishness essentially began with Crytical stating the "guns are supposed to shoot without ADS", which is a truth as it is in any FPS but when put into context with what more he and others say, it's essentially an extreme position stating something to the effect of "if you ironsight, you are doomed to fail." In response to that, my point was that ironsighting should stand for something more than it does in the face of the wanton non-ADS sprayers. It was at that point when the cavalry came marching out to defend the sprayers, to which your response above is a continuation.

    Next time, I'd suggest you quote me correctly and completely. I honestly have little time to waste debating matters if you don't hold your end of the bargain up.
    The "cavalry" didn't say this at all. In response to your opinion about ADS, people simply stated that in Brink ironsighting would put you at a disadvantage because of the game's emphasis on close-quarters battles and dynamic movement. It's a fact that SMGs are more effective in close range than the Rokstedi is; whether or not this SHOULD be the case is a matter of opinion and the majority simply disagreed with yours, which you seem unnecessarily bitter about. Nobody came marching out to "defend sprayers", because we all agreed that shooting should take some degree of skill, but the simple fact is that Brink is not balanced around bursting or ADS sniping; it's balanced around SMG spraying. At which point someone brought up the idea that Splash Damage themselves had intended this, which you vehemently denied and demanded proof. And when "the cavalry" marched in with the proof you demanded, you shut up because you realized your argument had no substance.

    Most of the topic consisted of you demanding "pics or it didn't happen" of Splash Damage falsely promising that ADS and hipfire would be on even ground, which people did dig up and which the majority agreed that they had remembered being stated at some point. These statements are what were being referred to when it was said that "guns are supposed to shoot without ADS". I never read it as an opinion stated against yours; it was recalling what we had all interpreted as Splash Damage's original intentions for the gunplay in Brink. Of course, you completely ignored that.

    That was the reasoning behind seeing ADS as disadvantageous in Brink; the question of whether that SHOULD be the case was separate entirely and on that topic you were only arguing with one or two people. And they disagreed with you. So what? No need to take it so personally. And if the majority disagrees with you that's something you just have to accept. Your opinion of how the game SHOULD be played is no more right than ours. Quit being a jerk. Personally, I prefer how Brink is more about spraying than sniping. If I want to play a game balanced around ADS I'll play something else, because it's clear that Brink is not that kind of game, concrete accuracy advantages of ADS notwithstanding.

    also lol @ debates being a "bargain". The purpose of debate is to convince others, which you are clearly not doing and seem to have no intention of doing. It's not just about feeling that you are the one WHO is right, it's about having everybody come to an agreement about WHAT is right.
    Last edited by gold163; 16th Dec 2011 at 20:40.

  12. #12
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    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by gold163 View Post
    At which point someone brought up the idea that Splash Damage themselves had intended this, which you vehemently denied and demanded proof. And when "the cavalry" marched in with the proof you demanded, you shut up.
    The inane, unequivocal statement tantamount to the guns being designed to shoot exclusively without ADS is that which I wanted proof of, and it hasn't been provided up to now. This is despite the fact that there is a documented and programmed difference between ADS accuracy and otherwise (read them patch changelogs) -- and despite the statements from Splash Damage (read them pre-game tips) that burst firing is more accurate than spraying. If I "shut up" as you put it is because you and your cronies' two-bit attempts to hold an argument failed, and failed hard. In other words, I washed my hands of you.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  13. #13

    Re: Concerning weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    The inane, unequivocal statement tantamount to the guns being designed to shoot exclusively without ADS is that which I wanted proof of, and it hasn't been provided up to now.
    But you see, nobody made this statement. Go back and find it. Pics or it didn't happen. If I recall, this is what set you off:

    Quote Originally Posted by .Chris. View Post
    SD stated many times during development that ironsights wouldn't be necessary in order to be able to kill someone, as in your accuracy wouldn't be penalised that much for not using them.
    To say that this is "inane and unequivocal" is an incredible exaggeration and to say that it is tantamount to stating that "guns were designed to shoot exclusively without ADS" is absurd, emotional extrapolation. It is an accurate reflection of what were believed to be Splash Damage's priorities in designing Brink's gunplay.

    I see your strategy now. As soon as somebody finds reasonable grounds to challenge your argument, simply change it! That way nobody knows what you're talking about and you can still pretend you're right.

    If this is what you were taking issue with:

    Quote Originally Posted by Crytiqal View Post
    The guns are SUPPOSED to shoot withouth ADS.

    If you want ADS go play CoD, they seem to cater for that
    Then I'm sorry you got so carried away with thinking everybody agreed with that. The guns may not be designed to shoot exclusively without ADS, but in no way does that imply the opposite. Nobody used the word "exclusive"; you put that in there yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    This is despite the fact that there is a documented and programmed difference between ADS accuracy and otherwise (read them patch changelogs) -- and despite the statements from Splash Damage (read them pre-game tips) that burst firing is more accurate than spraying.
    No ****, sherlock. Nobody denied this, and I don't know where in hell you got the impression that anybody did. But Splash Damage did promise that in Brink players wouldn't see a definite advantage to using ADS over hipfire (which you were given proof of). Obviously this isn't quite the case in-game but it reflects their intentions with how Brink should be played, and by consequence how most people play it (which also happens to be the most effective way to play it). That's how the game was designed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    If I "shut up" as you put it is because you and your cronies' two-bit attempts to hold an argument failed, and failed hard. In other words, I washed my hands of you.
    "Cronies"? What? You're quite the elitist, and you're being melodramatic. No wonder nobody takes you seriously. If anything, everybody else "washed their hands of you". If my attempt to hold an argument failed hard, then how come it's still the case that literally nobody agrees with you? Quit being a troll. I made only like two posts in that topic anyway and you responded to none of them because you probably didn't even read them. Stop lumping together everybody who disagrees with you. Nobody is my "crony". I doubt people even know who I am.

    SMGs are not overpowered. They are working exactly as intended. Knowing this, if you choose to use underpowered weapons, you are handicapping yourself and can't really complain about SMGs being overpowered. If you want to make the argument that the other weapons should be at the same level as SMGs, you can make that argument. But I refuse to believe that SMGs deserve a nerf to make them just as useless as the other weapons.
    Last edited by gold163; 16th Dec 2011 at 23:40.

  14. #14

    Re: Concerning weapons

    Concerning ADS and hip fire, I remember this interview talking about how half the people in Splash Damage dont fire from the sight and use ADS so like someone said before, the guns have been created so that people can use either ADS of hip fire without being at a disadvantage with any.

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