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Thread: For the love of..

  1. #1
    Still cappin' fewlz! RT1's Avatar
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    For the love of..

    For the love of all that isn't reckless and noobtastic, could you please do something about the ridiculous SMGs? These things seem to wreck every damn game they're put into. It seems the convention for success in this game is to slap a drum on your SMG, don a light body and run around spraying like an I.Q.-deficient fool without so much as an attempt to aim downsight. As a matter of fact, I was told straight out last night after expressing my sentiment about the no-skill sprayers that "you'd be killed before you even got your sight up." And largely speaking, that has proven true.

    Not even a buffed Rokstedi and some of the fastest reflexes in the business can deal with these things.

    It's probably a longshot at this point akin to screaming into the depths of space, but could you either nerf the range on these things, slap them with a crippling penalty for not aiming downsight, reduce their million-shot-per-second fire rate or at least curtail the veritable ammo depot of shells they get when they put a drum on their guns? While you're at it, restore their spread to their pre-patch state. You're the experts, so please, balance the game further.

    I'm tired of being sniped at from a mile away with them. They only thing I propose is to dial the SMGs back a bit. Kill off their range and increase their spread slightly. Either that, or increase the range and damage of the automatic rifles.

    Rant done, and thanks.
    Last edited by RT1; 10th Dec 2011 at 21:08.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  2. #2

    Re: For the love of..

    The guns are SUPPOSED to shoot withouth ADS.

    If you want ADS go play CoD, they seem to cater for that

  3. #3

    Re: For the love of..

    I think you do pretty well with your Rokstedi, personally.

    To be honest, there is no more skill in hipfiring then there is sighting up with an assault rifle. You are just pressing one extra button. When every one is sighting up, it makes it easier for everyone to get kills because so many people are standing around or slow strafing.

    I really don't think that the SMGs can complete against the assault rifles at range. But it doesn't matter because shooting people at long range is not an efficient way to play the game.

    Definitely don't want a penalty for hipfiring. I wish Brink didn't have sights at all, personally. I'd say increase their hipfire accuracy by a lot, decrease damage/range. Increase hipfire accuracy on the assault rifles to. I'd like the Gerund and Rhett and FRKNat least back to where they were at release. Would be nice to be able to hipfire with the Rokstedi as well

    I really hope that Splash Damage's next game doesn't use iron sights. They could try to emulate Unreal Tournament 3 gunplay or something. UT3 allows for accurate weapons, but because of the huge targets and cramped maps, its still easy for bad aimers to get kills and have fun it seems.
    Last edited by tangoliber; 10th Dec 2011 at 21:33.

  4. #4
    Still cappin' fewlz! RT1's Avatar
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    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by Crytiqal View Post
    If you want ADS go play CoD, they seem to cater for that
    CoD appears to be an insult these days, so I understand it as such, however if it isn't a drummed-out Carb-9 in this game, it's an AK74u in that one. Can't win either way. And what dubious source did you get the "the guns are supposed to be shot without ADS" business from?
    Last edited by RT1; 10th Dec 2011 at 21:35.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  5. #5
    The Almighty Brink Master
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    Re: For the love of..

    fully agree with Tango here
    I may not have much of a life, but the 1 i do live I enjoy every minute of it...
    Give or take a second or two.

  6. #6

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    And what dubious source did you get the "the guns are supposed to be shot without ADS" business from?
    SD stated many times during development that ironsights wouldn't be necessary in order to be able to kill someone, as in your accuracy wouldn't be penalised that much for not using them.

    ETQW Mediocre Club

  7. #7

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    And what dubious source did you get the "the guns are supposed to be shot without ADS" business from?
    SplashDamage.
    m00!Kendle

  8. #8
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    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by .Chris. View Post
    SD stated many times during development that ironsights wouldn't be necessary in order to be able to kill someone, as in your accuracy wouldn't be penalised that much for not using them.
    I don't buy your example one bit. You have taken an ambiguous statement that can be interpreted either way and are using it to support Crytiqal's absolute statement. What first person shooter absolutely requires aiming downsight anyway? When I aim downsight as I am accustomed to, I want a clear and recognizable advantage over someone that doesn't, factoring in other variables and regardless of their weapon of choice, but that does not appear to be the case in my experience with this game.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  9. #9
    Still cappin' fewlz! RT1's Avatar
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    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendle View Post
    SplashDamage.
    Find it. Quote it fully.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  10. #10

    Re: For the love of..

    I don't think you should have an advantage because you pressed an extra button. And if ADS was more effective, then everyone would be camping and standing still or slow strafe all the time.

    ADS is already so much more effective on PC than on consoles, which is why you see camping and people leaning out from cover on PC, but never see that on consoles. Which isn't very interesting gameplay, in my opinion.

    The way to make this game skillful would be to lower hipfire spread significantly, lower damage significantly, but increase the headshot bonus. That way, for normal players it would be about staying mobile while being able to track targets...and for pro players it would be about staying mobile while tracking the head.
    Last edited by tangoliber; 10th Dec 2011 at 21:59.

  11. #11

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    I don't buy your example one bit. You have taken an ambiguous statement that can be interpreted either way and are using it to support Crytiqal's absolute statement. What first person shooter absolutely requires aiming downsight anyway? When I aim downsight as I am accustomed to, I want a clear and recognizable advantage over someone that doesn't, factoring in other variables and regardless of their weapon of choice, but that does not appear to be the case in my experience with this game.
    Pick a decent weapon and stop scoping when you don't have to, problem solved, no one is forcing you to use inferior weapons.

    ETQW Mediocre Club

  12. #12

    Re: For the love of..

    The Rokstedi is a good weapon. The only situation in which it isn't ideal is in close range with an SMG, when you really need to switch to your secondary.

    We all want new games to feel like the games that we are most used to. Its more of an aesthetic or anything. Most modern gamers have been conditioned to want to ADS all the time, at almost any range. It feels unaesthetic to them to not ADS. I've even seen people refer to ADS as "aiming"...which is ridiculous...as if there is any difference between putting the center of the screen over the target when hipfiring or ADSing.
    Personally, I was conditioned to like crouching and tap firing for a while due to the games I played. It was an aesthetic, not particularly skillful. There is nothing skillful about learning to sight up, or to crouch, or to tap fire, or burst fire. Those are just techniques you learn that are specific to the game you are playing. There is skill, however, in trying to aim at fast moving targets, while you are also mobile...or trying to hit very small targets.
    Last edited by tangoliber; 10th Dec 2011 at 22:06.

  13. #13

    Re: For the love of..

    Can't remember which one it is to be honest

    Sounds like he's just 'doing it wrong' then?

    ETQW Mediocre Club

  14. #14

    Re: For the love of..

    No, he does pretty good with the Rokstedi, to be honest. The weapon has a very fast time to kill, and if you are facing one, you can't stop moving for a split second or you are dead.

  15. #15

    Re: For the love of..

    I'm confused, what's he moaning at exactly then if he can use the weapon effectively? Sounds like he's getting caught out in situations where his weapon choice isn't the best, SMGs aren't suitable for every situation either in Brink. Anyway I'm tired, ill leave

    ETQW Mediocre Club

  16. #16

    Re: For the love of..

    I think that the problem is that when you are playing with the Rokstedi, you need to have a team around you that can put more direct pressure on the objective. If the rest of your team isn't aggressive, then you are sort of screwed because the Rokstedi is ideal when shutting down certain angles/lines of sight, and being something of an outside force that is shooting into the chaos. In pubs, which is all that is really left in Brink, you can't really rely on your team... especially after the influx of new players following the free weekend. Not enough players play aggressively, which would create frustration for the Rokstedi user.

  17. #17
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    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by .Chris. View Post
    Pick a decent weapon and stop scoping when you don't have to, problem solved, no one is forcing you to use inferior weapons.
    In other words, pick an SMG and spam like a tool? I am far more pragmatic than that, man.

    I'll look you up in game sometime, Chr1s07.
    Last edited by RT1; 11th Dec 2011 at 01:16.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  18. #18

    Re: For the love of..

    the problem isn't that SMGs are too good; it's that every other weapon sucks by comparison. The spread on assault rifles vs the spread on SMGs just isn't consistent given the high rate of fire of SMGs. And it's not even like we're talking about "SMGs" overall. It's only certain guns like the CARB-9 and Galactic that can get away with this. The Kross doesn't do enough damage in a short amount of time for its increased accuracy to be of much help, and you can't hit anything with the Tampa more than a foot away from you if you tried. IMO the Bulpdaun is the most balanced SMG.

    it doesn't help that if you pick the rockstedi or any assault rifle that isn't the Euston/Gerund you're putting yourself at a serious disadvantage considering the insane recoil the other guns have by comparison. The FRKN in particular is useless in my opinion since it's got a such a low rate of fire and a tiny magazine, and reloading takes forever. The Brink wikia lists it as having the lowest DPS out of any assault rifle by a huge margin. The Rockstedi is pretty similar in that you can't spam shots on account of the insane recoil. But SMG users can certainly get away with it.

    the issue is certain guns specifically that can't live up to the others (the four good guns in the game) by a very wide gap. The Euston/Gerund can burst well even without ADS. The Kross and FRKN do no damage and the Tampa and Rockstedi can't hit anything. The Rhett feels like it has the weaknesses of both the Euston and the Gerund, but overall it's still a better choice than most of the aforementioned guns. In my opinion, bring the other weapons up, and the game will naturally find a balance, but as it is most of them are so bad as to put you at a significant disadvantage. As frustrating it is to use the Rockstedi well, it's actually probably the best sniper rifle in the game since the Barett and Drognav are so laughable.

    Also slightly off topic, but whose brilliant idea was it to make it so that high-capacity and drum magazines on most guns wouldn't give you an even number of full clips? That makes no sense to me and is part of the reason why it's useless on most guns... except the CARB-9 and Galactic. Which already have better accuracy, recoil, rate of fire, and mag size compared to every other gun in the first place plus good damage to boot.
    Last edited by gold163; 11th Dec 2011 at 02:12.

  19. #19

    Re: For the love of..

    I wish that captain "adapt your game play" was around when I was wrecking face with the old smg+light combo... the entire weapon mechanics design of the game makes no sense, that's the main problem. When people have consistent aim, the SMGs just kill better, faster, stronger. Not to mention that for the most part the guns just encourage you to aim for the center mass and no matter how good your aim is they are gonna spray all over. I was really hoping that last patch was gonna be an intensive weapon makeover, but I see it's still pretty much the same ole same ole.

  20. #20

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    I don't buy your example one bit. You have taken an ambiguous statement that can be interpreted either way and are using it to support Crytiqal's absolute statement. What first person shooter absolutely requires aiming downsight anyway? When I aim downsight as I am accustomed to, I want a clear and recognizable advantage over someone that doesn't, factoring in other variables and regardless of their weapon of choice, but that does not appear to be the case in my experience with this game.
    Ill see if i can find the quote, but we've been following the development for several YEARS so

    1) We actually know what was said
    2) It will be buried deep with all the crap posted

    But you can forget about the clear advantage cause this game was supposed to be a fast paced shooter so ADS would slow it down which is why hipfiring isnt penalized to keep the pace going


    Here is a long thread, search for "hip" and you should see all the comments,
    http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=forum&mode=item&id=24588

    ill lift one out as example:

    Yeah, i've talked about this several times in the thread already. basic summary is that the game is being designed so that out of the box, both ways of playing are really effective, and it all depends on how you use them and what your personal skill level is. myself, i find that these days in our internal playtests, i'm usually shooting from the hip and doing much better than when i slow down to iron sight.

    some weapons, of course, are much better for hip shooting than others, and there's a wide variety of weapons to choose from so that everyone's style of play is covered.

    AND, we're also looking into (no promises, but things look good) allowing server match settings that turn iron sighting off altogether. i'll let you guys know more about that when i can (as things become more solid... we're still pre-alpha now, trying to get all the core gameplay into th game!)
    So yea, if you are lower skilled, go ahead and use ironsights

    To sum the thread all up, using ironsight or shooting from the hip are equally valid, where shooting from the hip requires a higher skill to aim. YES IT SAID SO


    Altho in retrospect, i have to say they changed skills into higher luck
    Last edited by Crytiqal; 11th Dec 2011 at 11:08.

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