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Thread: For the love of..

  1. #21

    Re: For the love of..

    I specifically remember that quote. If Splash Damage didn't want it to be misconstrued they did a terrible job of expressing that sentiment. There is no weapon in the game that is better hip-fired than ADS. I remember being so disappointed at the game's release finding out that for the majority of weapons you were basically REQUIRED to ADS in order to hit anything. I guess SD caved in to pressure from the mainstream demographic that enjoys games where ADS is a significant gameplay element.

    Basically, I don't hate ADS, but I don't like feeling as if I'm being forced to use it, either. I'm sure a lot of players feel the same way, which is why they use spray n' pray SMGs. But like I said, SMGs wouldn't be nearly as effective if EVERY OTHER GUN IN THE GAME wasn't so horrible with hip-firing.

    I specifically avoid using SMGs now because of how effective they are at spraying. It just feels cheap to be running a Galactic with drum magazine. SD really needs to buff a bunch of weapons, especially ones that nobody uses like the light rifles and most of the pistols.
    Last edited by gold163; 11th Dec 2011 at 17:44.

  2. #22

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    Find it. Quote it fully.
    Can't be arsed, been here years, been playing SD games since 2003, don't feel the need to prove a point cos someone called me out on the Interwebs. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    They only thing I propose is to dial the SMGs back a bit. Kill off their range and increase their spread slightly. Either that, or increase the range and damage of the automatic rifles.
    Mostly agree, SMGs need a bigger distance fall-off (spread is still too high IMO, it could do with being lower, that'd actaully reduce the spray 'n' pray tbh). Definately agree with buffing the other weapons, in fact in general I hate weapons being nerfed cos someone's feelings got hurt being owned by them, better to buff the other weapons to make using them a more viable option.
    m00!Kendle

  3. #23
    Still cappin' fewlz! RT1's Avatar
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    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by Crytiqal View Post
    ..this game was supposed to be a fast paced shooter so ADS would slow it down which is why hipfiring isnt penalized to keep the pace going
    I don't think you're able to hold yourself to any sort of cogent argument here. I ask you for the defacto statement about the game's guns being made specifically to shoot without ADS (your words, man) and all you and the others are feeding me are half statments that could be read either way. I'm still waiting. While you're at it, care to explain why there are documented differences -- hard numbers from the reverse engineered game files -- in spread between ADS and non-ADS for the various weapons? This nonsense about it not being penalized is you, for lack of better phrasing, talking from the hip.


    To sum the thread all up, using ironsight or shooting from the hip are equally valid, where shooting from the hip requires a higher skill to aim. YES IT SAID SO
    Tell you what. Equip a Rokstedi and see how far you get against anybody while firing the thing from the hip. That's your litmus test. I have yet to see any sort of "higher skilled" player hip firing this gun, while all the self-proclaimed hip firing players like yourself do it with their mouse button taped down firing a silly, shoot-here-shoot-there SMG. Amirite?

    As for me, I only use the Rokstedi because it takes skill to use, and I'm a staunch non-conformist. Out of every fifty players I run across, probably one use it and almost never for the duration of a match. When I do see another player using it, chances are it's because I dropped them quickly and consistently with it and they want to see what it's all about. Happens all the time.
    Last edited by RT1; 11th Dec 2011 at 23:40.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
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    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  4. #24
    Still cappin' fewlz! RT1's Avatar
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    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendle View Post
    Can't be arsed, been here years, been playing SD games since 2003, don't feel the need to prove a point cos someone called me out on the Interwebs. Sorry.
    Providing a convincing argument to back up your claims is a valid life skill, feller. Someone calls you out on the street and you end up in court, try telling a judge you "can't be arsed." A claim with no supporting argument is not only ass-lazy, it's entirely empty. Purely circumstantial. Ya know -- pics or it didn't happen. And if all you're gonna feed me is "Splash Damage" when I stick a mirror in your face, then it didn't happen: confined to the circular file.
    Last edited by RT1; 11th Dec 2011 at 23:47.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  5. #25

    Re: For the love of..

    So basically... SMGs too good?

    Or light is too good?

    Or SMG + Light too good?

  6. #26

    Re: For the love of..

    RT1, you keep telling yourself you're right unless someone can prove you wrong, equally valid life skill.

    Those of us that have been around the last 9 years, played RTCW / ET / ET:QW / Brink, all the games SD has been involved in, all objective class based shooters, all featuring shoot from the hip SMGs, ain't gonna fall over themselves to indulge the guy who just joined, has the wrong idea about the game, and when put right by those who know replies "pics or it didn't happen".

    How about you find the quotes to support your argument?
    m00!Kendle

  7. #27

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    In other words, pick an SMG and spam like a tool? I am far more pragmatic than that, man.

    I'll look you up in game sometime, Chr1s07.
    Just a friendly reminder if you ever paid attention to the short lived Brink competition scene. There's only one way to do it, and being a non-conformist means your gonna lose... because of mathematical statistics (none of the top 10 teams ever used anything but SMGs). Again one of the reasons why people dislike the game.

  8. #28

    Re: For the love of..

    Tell you what. Equip a Rokstedi and see how far you get against anybody while firing the thing from the hip.
    Load up the challenge called Tower Defense.
    Equip whatever guns you like and try and beat my score listed at 11.
    Thats your litmus test.

    Im kidding, ofcourse. I just wanted to sound like a massive hero
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  9. #29
    Still cappin' fewlz! RT1's Avatar
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    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by INF3RN0 View Post
    Just a friendly reminder if you ever paid attention to the short lived Brink competition scene. There's only one way to do it, and being a non-conformist means your gonna lose... because of mathematical statistics (none of the top 10 teams ever used anything but SMGs).
    Non-conformists always win.

    Why should I indulge in a person who has a chronological age I've been PC gaming for at long as (20 years), and gaming for nearly ten years before that? Mind yourself. You simply haven't put the time in to gain any real wisdom in the world of gaming, despite your involvement in the competitive scene which I've forgotten about long ago. Just to put things into perspective here.

    Here's the deal with me. I use a gun none of you lazy sprayers would ever give the light of day. And I'm quite skilled with the weapon too. As a matter of fact, I routinely finish rounds with most kills logged, and that's among some very skilled players who are competitive in and of themselves. I don't for a second imagine that would change all that much in your "comp scene." My only complaint is that SMGs make it too damn easy.

    Just saying.
    Last edited by RT1; 13th Dec 2011 at 15:41.
    Steam ID: RT1 (Redtail)
    Brink Class: Soldier
    Preferred Weapons: Rokstedi AR, Tampa SMG.

  10. #30

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    I don't for a second imagine that would change all that much in your "comp scene."
    I'm sorry RT1, please don't take this the wrong way, but you would've got spanked, and spanked hard, if you went up against the comp players with an AR in Brink, when they were playing. No-one any good plays this game anymore, certainly not the top comp players, so it's no surprise you do well against the current player base, but the first few weeks after Brink was released, when the good players were giving it a genuine go, you wouldn't have stood a chance.

    Like I say, please don't take that the wrong way, and please don't take it as ME claiming to be anything I'm not, I've been gaming for 11 years, most of it competitively, and I've never made it off the bottom rung as far as the comp scene is concerned. I didn't stand a chance against some of the guys who were playing Brink in the first month either.

    You do the "comp scene" a dis-service claiming they're too lazy to use your choice of gun, or haven't been playing long enough to attain your level of enlightenment. Some of the guys I know who gave Brink a go had been playing competitive epsorts (for big money) since Quake3.
    Last edited by Kendle; 13th Dec 2011 at 17:39.
    m00!Kendle

  11. #31

    Re: For the love of..

    Just wanted throw out my support for the fact that SD stated repeatedly that this game was about movement and hip fire not standing still/strafing while ADS. Like other posters are stating if you've been around here a while, even the short time that I have, and you're an avid forum follower reading every post out there it's extremely difficult to drag up direct quotes. Especially considering some of the threads run for hundreds of pages. I would think the fact that you're the only one arguing about this and everyone else in the thread telling you SD said this info about ADS would be good enough.

    If you even think about it from a game design aspect ADS prominent gameplay would detract from other systems they hoped would shine. Brink is all about being on the move and utilizing the parkour system (for better or worse). This lends itself much better to a shoot from the hip design than an ADS one. One of the tool tips even says something along the lines of "Movement is more important than shooting in Brink."
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  12. #32

    Re: For the love of..

    another quote from rhado

    Q: In my eyes ironsight could be a nice extra, but just an extra! to shoot more accurate from longer distances, just like a sniper but then without zoom but let's say a fov around 65-70.
    A: I think that's a fair way to look at it, that's kind of how it's playing right now in our internal playtests :-)

  13. #33

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by RT1 View Post
    Non-conformists always win.

    Why should I indulge in a person who has a chronological age I've been PC gaming for at long as (20 years), and gaming for nearly ten years before that? Mind yourself. You simply haven't put the time in to gain any real wisdom in the world of gaming, despite your involvement in the competitive scene which I've forgotten about long ago. Just to put things into perspective here.

    Here's the deal with me. I use a gun none of you lazy sprayers would ever give the light of day. And I'm quite skilled with the weapon too. As a matter of fact, I routinely finish rounds with most kills logged, and that's among some very skilled players who are competitive in and of themselves. I don't for a second imagine that would change all that much in your "comp scene." My only complaint is that SMGs make it too damn easy.

    Just saying.
    Don't really know how good you really are, so I won't judge... but just an FYI is that nearly all of the SMG users in Brink comp were from other games that required 100x more skill overall to play. If you think your good because you can get most kills in an unskilled game that no one plays, not to mention a pub... well not much to be said there. Most comp SMG players don't spray also, we aim, but the gun sprays automatically because that is how it works. I wouldn't oversell yourself at this point, and I am quite sure your bunghole woulda been burning if you had been playing competitive scrims in the first few weeks. I can't even begin to explain how non-competitive the game is at this point...

  14. #34

    Re: For the love of..

    A hitscan weapon is a hitscan weapon. At the end of the day you're putting an enemy smack in the middle of your crosshairs and repeatedly tapping or holding Mouse1 in a blind frenzy until one of you is dead. In the scope of Brink's overall emphasis on up-close, in your face gunplay, certain weapons are undoubtedly better than others in an overall strategy to get the most kills. But it all comes down to which players can aim well and which ones can't, and if you're really so much better than other players then you shouldn't have much of a problem playing against metawhores.

    Actually, Brink's weapon balance isn't perfect, but in an actual match it's not as bad as I made it out to be. Certainly some weapons are underpowered especially on paper, but in the greater scope of team gameplay the light rifles aren't absolutely atrocious when used properly, and etc. I guess I can't really speak of high-level gameplay since I only play pub games, but the last few matches I played the only SMG I saw was the Kross. People were using the Barnett, Euston, and Ritchie. There wasn't that much weapon diversity but to be honest I don't think light-SMG abusers are as common anymore. But once again, this was on a couple of pub servers.

  15. #35

    Re: For the love of..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruben0s View Post
    another quote from rhado
    Yes i gave him the entire thread but apparently he is too lazy look up stuff himself

  16. #36
    Member ArchdemonXIII's Avatar
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    Re: For the love of..

    Just wanted to point out that quoting a dev saying that hip-fire and ADS would both be effective alternatives does not prove that the game is supposed to be hip-fire centric.

    Just saying.

  17. #37

    Re: For the love of..

    Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether they designed it to be balanced between the two styles or not. They designed the game so that it would promote a balance of the four classes, but that's not really the way it turned out. In most games, the most effective play style is not the same as what was intended by the developers.

    I think some developers probably were more old school in terms of wanting good hipfire, and some developers were from the post-iron sights era. It seems that a more oldschool hipfire guy originally set the assault rifle spread....and then a different developer took over for the first weapon patch and made them ADS-only guns.

    I definitely think hipfiring SMGs are, for the most part, the ideal, and "safest" way to play. Going all-lights would be the safest strategy... But, there is a role for the assault rifles that some people don't recognize. In my opinion, you can compete with maybe 4 lights and 1 medium. Its just riskier...but I think that if Brink competition had caught on, that you would have seen some successful teams using it on certain maps.

    And, if someone had great tracking ability, then they would be able to beat strafing SMGs at close range with a Rokstedi... the potential is there. But at average level, SMG wins at close range, and the Rokstedi wins at medium-long range....I don't see the problem. A team of SMGs would beat a team of Rokstedis by using cover, but 1 Rokstedi accompanying 4 SMGs can be effective for shutting down important lines of sight, which exist on every objective in Brink.

    To be honest, the Rokstedi and other AR's are a little too campy in my opinion on PC. I think the game would play better if they did less damage per second, so that you never have those moments where you get instant killed the moment you run into a room where a guy with a Rokstedi is waiting. I would prefer if Brink didn't have iron sights at all, and if you could strafe with the Rokstedi and shoot accurately. That would leave a lot of potential for skill.. As it is, the Rokstedi takes no skill, at least not more than any other gun in Brink. (I'd guess that the Lobster is the only gun that might reward practice, since you can learn how to bounce it off different surfaces.). But I have that old school preference for mobile gunplay and long duels.
    Last edited by tangoliber; 26th Dec 2011 at 05:12.

  18. #38
    Member ArchdemonXIII's Avatar
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    Re: For the love of..

    I actually like Brink's mixture of run and gun and more static shooting. It gives a neat sort of shootout vibe that you don't get to see very often.

    I personally like ADS for immersion factor, but i don't really care for games that make it impossible to hit anything without it. I think ideally for me, recoil would need to be manually controlled. That way you could keep the accuracy the same between HF and ADS, but ADS would handle recoil better.

    As far as camping goes, to me it's only camping if you refuse to move from your perch when there's nothing in the immediate area to kill. Besides, it's not a deathmatch game where you're being cowardly about getting kills... in an objective based shooter, covering the angles of approach is just good tactics. That being said, there should always be countermeasures to it.

    Now that I've had the chance to play online, I really think sprint/SMART should be much faster, though.

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