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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

  1. #1

    Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    Here is my feedback on the NEW weapon tweaks.This is my opinion on how the weapons should behave in order to make it a more predictable,skillful and less sterile shooting experience.

    • Recoil is still not even/ steady but shaky for 90% of the weapons.This means there is no skill involved in controlling recoil, it is too random. E.G. Maximus,Hjammerdeim,Gotlung,SMG ironsights are jumping around randomly or the crosshair just expands dramatically, this means there is nothing to master, nothing to control.It s just random..
    • There is still no steady even recoil that is moving in one general direction so one can compensate for it e.g. up and towards the right.
    • There is still automatic recoil correction on the Ritchi, Rockstedi,Draganov, actually the guns where recoil is not shaky and completely random.This means after correcting the recoil your gun is moving towards the ground.
    • There is no recoil reduction/benefit when aiming down the sights that really makes a difference.Recoil should be strong and even when not aiming down the sights.When aiming down the sights recoil should get reduced so it makes sense to use it.Aiming down the sights on SMG'S isn't really effective in most cases.
    • Mossington still has horrible spread and is pretty much useless.Please reduce spread on all shotguns so it is only a very small crosshair BUT make the damage output weaker with the range value.So it is predictable to shoot a shotgun, you can go for headshots and it involves skill.Please also reduce the random shaking of the crosshair of the Hjammerdeim and give it a steady and even recoil with every shot to the upper right.This makes sooting on targets more skillful and predictable.


    These changes would make the game incredible.The shooting mechanics, random spread and luck factor involved in Brink made it die so early, in my opinion.

    EDIT:

    MG Nest are still so horrible, what a JOKE SD ! On Resort it would be really helpful to have a MG Nest that actually HITS something to defend against spawn raping ..... But it sucks so hard you can t hit ****.

    EDIT: Stuff from an older post that goes into more detail about the weapon handling:

    Recoil get s corrected by the game not by the player atm.E.G. You fire fast with the Ritchie Revolver in a close qaurter fight, press the mouse down to work against the recoil, when finished the game makes your crosshair/AS go towards direction floor.

    SD please remove this artifical recoil correction and let the player do it.When shooting guns that have recoil and one stops to gain a better spread again the crosshair automatically moves downards, away from the target because of this.

    Here are my thoughts on weapons their handlings and how to make them feel more predictable, make shooting more intense and upper the skill ceiling.I've posted this in the "Tighten spread less damage" thread but i am a little bit worried it gets overlooked by SD.

    Some of you may have already read those suggestions.I've put some time into finding solutions and thinking this over so i don't want those suggestions to be unheard by SD.

    In my opinion the aim is to find shooting mechanics that are predictable and comprehenisble for the player.When taking the control out of the players hands people get angry.No control or a lot of random factors is a huge factor why so many threads were made.

    In my opinion a solution would be to increase recoil instead of max spread and make SMG'S and other weapons that aren't supposed to be good on distance less effective on distance with the "range" value.

    So it doesn't matter if a SMG has almost no spread and is very accurate for long distance shooting as it doesn't deal as much damage on longer distances.

    By making SMG'S still very accurate on distance (almost no spread) but reduce their damage via the "range" value, = less damage on distance, and making it harder to hold down fire because of an increased recoil we would have an even better result in my opinion.

    To make it really perfectt this can be further tweaked so using hip firing has more recoil and using AS reduces recoil so AS still has it s place in the game and is useful for long distance shooting.

    The more recoil while using hip firing suggestion would work with shotguns aswell.It is somewhat logical and not completely out of this world that a gun or a shotgun has more kick (recoil) when not shouldered/not using AS.

    This is a PC patch which i give SD mad respect for as this shows they understood that a PC shooter and a console shooter needs different shooting mechanics to be really satisfying for both crowds,something not many developers have understood.

    Here is a summary:

    Instead of increasing max spread - Increase recoil.

    If a gun has stronger recoil the longer you shoot it, max spread becomes almost unneccesary and can be very low as an value.

    Instead of increasing spread - use the "range value"


    By this SMG's/guns that aren't supposed to be that effective at long range are still accurate and predictable to shoot(skill) but just don't deal as much damage.

    Instead of giving guns artifical buillet spread on distance so AS get s used -

    give guns a stronger recoil while hip firing that needs to be compensated and reduce recoil when a gun is shouldered/using AS.So AS are used for long distance shooting in order to have reduced recoil as the gun is shouldered so one can stay on a smaller target with the AS a lot easier.By this guns would have a simular spread and max spread while hip firing and AS but the recoil value changes.

    In my opinion this is more believable and makes more sense gameplay wise as a gun isn't magically chaning it's bullet spread becoming a completely different gun because using Ironsights, it s just that it is better to control, resulting in a better pattern.

    If the SMG/weapon is still too powerful ,instead of increasing spread - reduce damage output


    More recoil means again more skill is needed to handle the gun under sustained fire and it is actually skill if you can handle the gun with heavier recoil.

    lnstead of a max spread value which forces you to stop shooting because bullets are magically going all over the placee.We are of course talking about a recoil which is moving into one general direction and can be compenstaed.Not the lottery recoil of e.g. the Maximus that is going left and right.Recoil must be so that the gun is moving upwards.Or the gun is moving upwards and slightly to the right(one general direction)

    I think it adds to the often quoted skill ceiling and is simply more understandable for the players.If he hasn't compensated for the recoil and is aiming over the head, he won't score a headshot,instead of a random bullet spread pattern he can't influence.

    Reducing spread and using recoil and the "range value" instead could even help to make shotguns more predictable and comprehensible for the player and even add a difference between body and headshots to shotguns.If you didn't knew, shotguns don't have headshots at the moment.

    If you reduce the spread heavily of shotguns so all bullets are very close to the center of the crosshair/AS it is actually skill to do headshots.By reducing damage on distance via the "range value" you don't have to use a crazy bullet spread anymore.

    This would result in more comprehensible shotgun behavior,would make shotguns effective and skillfull to use at close range because headshots are still skill to pull off, make more predictable damage and they would still be weak on long range because of the "range" value reducing it s damage on distance.

    Brink can be a fantastic opportunity for SD to really nail down shooting mechanics on the different platforms and have this important gameplay knowledge flow into their new projects, profiting immensly if done correctly.
    Last edited by RaKeD; 21st Nov 2011 at 01:47.

  2. #2

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaKeD View Post
    So it is predictable to shoot a shotgun, you can go for headshots and it involves skill.
    The shotguns don't do any extra headshot damage like other weapons. They do the same damage to every part of the body. I'm used to aiming at the head with shotguns, but I had to train myself in Brink to aim at the body because you just want to hit as much mass as possible.

  3. #3

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    What platform do you play on?

  4. #4

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    Me or him? I'm on PC at the moment. I assume he is on PC since he is talking about the weapon update.

  5. #5

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    I am playing on Pc.I think the game has a lot of potential.

    Problem is the art and style section did an awesome job and the level and gameplay section did an horrible job.

  6. #6

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    MG Nests are truly pathetic. They should essentially be a Maximus MG without any recoil ever. A mounted MG should be very difficult to attack directly.

  7. #7

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    I think that would make it too hard on offense in many cases. I don't like going up against an MG Nest head to head unless he is shooting at someone else, or if I have a grenade. Also, a maximus without recoil would have a very low time to kill. Maybe if you made its turn speed really slow and limited its freedom of aim even more, then you might be able to give it that kind of power.

  8. #8

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    It's not that the MGs suck. The main problem is the position of them. Also the player is much more exposure that it should.
    And the dmg given by them is worse than killing enemies with melee.

    It's like adding MGs to QUAKE 3 loool

  9. #9

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    I didn't say no spread, just no recoil. I personally find MG nests trivial to take out (on PC) and cannot remember the last time I died to one. The gun is simply not good enough and the protection provided by the nest is minimal to nonexistent against competent players.

  10. #10

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    And yet the Hjammerdeim' sights are still bugged, as well as the Mossington's reload.

  11. #11

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    after getting more hours in, the game does feel a lot better - to the point where I enjoyed playing it . One thing that baffled me was that it seemed a lot of weapons get no spread reduction for crouching. Shouldn't every gun get a bonus for crouching? 10% reduction for crouch would be about right I would think.

  12.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #12
    Game Designer Smooth's Avatar
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    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    In Brink, crouching only benefits hip-fire. Stationary crouch is more accurate than standing, but crouch-walking is the same as standing.

    When you're ironsighted the accuracy is the same no matter what stance you happen to be in.

    Below is the full list of accuracy states we use. Some are awkwardly named due to changed during development, and you can't shoot in all of them, in nearly all cases weapons get less accurate as you go down the list.


    • Ironsights – Applied whenever the user is in ironsight mode, stationary or moving
    • Crouchstationary – For stationary crouch
    • Stationary – Includes standing, and crouch-moving
    • Normal – Applied when the user is moving while standing (walking, running)
    • Onehanded – Includes sprinting and vaulting
    • Fast – Includes mantle, sliding and falling
    • Knockdown – For when the player is knocked-down
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  13. #13

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    Is weapon testing pretty much closed, Smooth? Or still open to suggestions? Any chance for spawn time and bodytype adjustments? I appreciate the updates, and the willingness to finish what you guys started. Personally, I am loving the demo recording. I've already got a folder of fifty match demos or so.
    I also think the clan system is actually designed better in many aspects than most clan systems I have seen, and I hope you guys will implement it in your next project.
    Last edited by tangoliber; 7th Dec 2011 at 07:45.

  14. #14

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    thanks, but when crouching with some weapons the circle does not get any smaller. Is that inaccurate?

  15. #15

    Re: Weapon Feedback NEW Patch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rahabib View Post
    thanks, but when crouching with some weapons the circle does not get any smaller. Is that inaccurate?
    Rahabib is correct. Some guns don't benefit at all from crouching, even when hip-firing. Someone put took together this nice spreadsheet which shows this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0.

    I understand that you want to make the guns feel different, and I'm all for that, but crouching should always reduce the spread by at least a certain amount. I would even be for making the crouching spread stat consistent across all guns. There are enough other stats to differentiate them.

    Though I think that problem is much smaller than the problem with the starting spread. The fact that pretty much all guns have a very high STARTING spread I think remains by far the biggest issue. I've posted at length about this in other threads. What Raked has said echoes a lot of my thoughts.

    And I too, Smooth, am curious if weapon testing and other testing and tweaking is still ongoing

    Thanks.

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