SMG's

[BiigDaddyDellta]

The idea is simple, the SMG's are still the most used weapons in the game. why? because the ammo clips are so large they can be spammed from the hip and shoot enough bullets in a straffe pattern to take down anyone in an instant with or without a well placed grenade in most cases.

My proposal is this, the accuracy must be increased (for ALL weapons actually) and the spread must be reduced specifically in ADS. so that when you fire you actually hit what you are going for every time unless you used sustained fire of course. BUT, the damage must be decreased! the SMG's should be weapons depended upon for close to mid range accuracy aiming down the barrel for a specific hit box to cause the damage you intend. if you spray and pray you should get no where fast, unless you add in an explosive to finish them off.

Now this is not true for all of the SMG's ie: the Bualpdaun and the Galactic, these are both fantastic examples of what the SMG's should play like but because some of the other guns are so much more powerful these get ignored.

Baulpdaun needs a larger clip but the damage ratio and the accuracy are spot on
Galactic is an all around great weapon, but as it stands it pales in comparison to the Carb 9 and the Kross so it is probably the rarest seen among SMG's on the battle fields which is sad. In my humble opinion the Galactic SMG should be the established baseline (or so) for what you should be going for in an SMG.

Here's looking forward to the future,

BiiG

[ZionDelhamorte]

I agree with what you said but i do think the Bulpdaun needs a bit more on the damage side i dont spray so i love when ADS works and you nail someone but as it stands being a light we don have anything with much stopping power...Dont like the carb and never have really...I thought unlocking the final smg meant it would be killer but i pick the galactic over all others when im not running bulpdaun...it could use some tunning ...or why make them unlockables if the carb was gonna be the killer and get the rest of the good ones(galactic, and bulpdaun) nerfed?

[wolfnemesis75]

Carb-9 is wicked power. Whatever is the highest DMG CQC machinegun is gonna get used the most. Even if its like shooting with a brick. People will figure out how much the brick weighs. If the Shotgun was useable by a Light Body Type.

Game Over

[BiigDaddyDellta]

i agree completely, I'm not saying they shouldn't tune some of the weaker SMG's but I do think that they are a good baseline for what all the SMG's should be to begin with. what they shouldn't be is the Carb 9 (basiccally a tiny AR with a mega clip). The Baulpdaun especially, it really does need more ammo though.

[Apoc]

The idea is simple, the SMG's are still the most used weapons in the game. why? because the ammo clips are so large they can be spammed from the hip and shoot enough bullets in a straffe pattern to take down anyone in an instant with or without a well placed grenade in most cases.

My proposal is this, the accuracy must be increased (for ALL weapons actually) and the spread must be reduced specifically in ADS. so that when you fire you actually hit what you are going for every time unless you used sustained fire of course. BUT, the damage must be decreased! the SMG's should be weapons depended upon for close to mid range accuracy aiming down the barrel for a specific hit box to cause the damage you intend. if you spray and pray you should get no where fast, unless you add in an explosive to finish them off.

Now this is not true for all of the SMG's ie: the Bualpdan and the Galactic, these are both fantastic examples of what the SMG's should play like but because some of the other guns are so much more powerful these get ignored.

Baulpdawn needs a larger clip but the damage ratio and the accuracy are spot on
Galactic is an all around great weapon, but as it stands it pales in comparison to the Carb 9 and the Kross so it is probably the rarest seen among SMG's on the battle fields. In my humble opinion the Galactic SMG should be the established baseline (or so) for what you should be going for in an SMG.

Here's looking forward to the future,

BiiG

Smgs are used the most as the assualt rifles are aweful and heavys are slow. Iv found alot of people dont like being slow. Some do, but id say a majority favour being able to go where they want fast. Which leaves them with medium and lights. And since ARs are aweful, the logical choice is to go for the usable SGMs.

Also hip fire should be the main type of aiming in this game. If hipe fire accuracy is reduced enough then the skill ceiling of this game will be increased exponentially.

[V1cK_dB]

Smgs are used the most as the assualt rifles are aweful and heavys are slow. Iv found alot of people dont like being slow. Some do, but id say a majority favour being able to go where they want fast. Which leaves them with medium and lights. And since ARs are aweful, the logical choice is to go for the usable SGMs.

Also hip fire should be the main type of aiming in this game. If hipe fire accuracy is reduced enough then the skill ceiling of this game will be increased exponentially.

100% agree. Hip fire should be the main type of aiming in the game.

[Hot-Wire]

Hmmm them making those changes would change what SD originally wanted. A game where someone can play by either ADSing or spraying from the hip. I know they've said that a few times in a few interviews.

[BiigDaddyDellta]

If that's what they wanted they should have added in an option(s) to "ADS" with a small zoom option like fallout 3 instead of true iron sighting, it could be a toggle option like fallout new vegas and it would work fine that way.... period and a simple fix done by tweaking a small animation.

[Tandem]

de-nerf the carb
increase clip for bulpdaun

[Cep]

No SMG should have damage higher then an AR or HMG, nuff said.

[Varonth]

Nerf them all. I know that Splash Damage said they want to buff the other weapons, but when every weapon is just as effective as the Carb or other SMGs then people will die way too fast to complete any objective.

Those weapons kill people like twice as fast as an AR, and they are even somewhat effective at range.

Yes, I'm using an Carb aswell as a secondary weapon, but you need one SMG in order to have at least a chance against those lights which just run around everywhere.
But once my AR runs out of ammo I also start using the Carb at range, and it is rediculous how easy and effective it is.
Just point into the general direction of your enemy and start spraying. Sure you need like one mag in order to kill him, but the firerate will help you with that, and then some bullets will just hit him. In close range then, you need around half a second to kill a heavy, which is just idiot-proof mathode to kill someone. An AR needs around 2-3 times as long.

So imo nerf the damage of SMGs and nerf it hard.
Not like 5-10%, that would not increase the time to kill by the amount needed for those weapons.
I thing even in CQC a SMG should need at least 1 second to kill an unbuffed heavy, which would be ~50% damage nerf.

[morguen87]

I think SMGs are good as they are, maybe I'm in the minority thinking they don't need to be buffed or nerfed. They are good close quarters weapons. Nothing wrong with that, nothing to fix.

ARs are what need the most work in my opinion. ARs should have a much larger clip and recoil/spread should be minimal when fired in short bursts. Right now, the amount of recoil/spread makes even short bursts not as effective as they should be and SMGs have two advantages in magazines in that they hold more rounds and reload faster. Reloading faster is fine, but they shouldn't have both advantages, give ARs more rounds per magazine. While I know it's not realistic, thinking of ARs as a "bridge" between SMGs and heavy weapons in terms of their power and rounds per magazine would make them more balanced. I still agree they should be the weapon that rewards patience, reflected through accurate bursts but inaccurate full auto fire; but even hip fired bursts should be more accurate than SMG spray.

The Gotlung and Maximus should have a little less spread and do a little more damage. The other heavy weapons feel pretty good.

This way the heavies would be the big damage dealers, the medium equipped with AR and a SMG would be well equipped to handle about anything, though at the expense of not having the firepower of the heavy nor the speed of the light, while the light with a SMG would still be deadly in close quarters.

That sounds pretty good to me.

All in all, I like the most recent patch. I think SMGs are spot on and I like the feel of most of the heavy weapons as well. ARs definitely need an overhaul though, and small tweaks to the Gotlung (it has a spin-up and an incredibly slow reload speed that need to be justified afterall,) and the Maximus (outclassed by every other heavy weapon) would be nice.

edit: I had some ideas for the weapon shield that would make ARs (and potentially heavy weapons) more useful:
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=30469

[Smoochy]

No SMG should have damage higher then an AR or HMG, nuff said.

+1

ive stopped using ARs as the SMGs beat them in 9/10 instances. galactic with big clip is amazing. they should lose power over anything over short range.

OR reduce AR weapon spread.

[BiigDaddyDellta]

they should maybe increase the drop off damage a ton or make them not accurate at range? I don't see why they wouln't be SMG's are NOT close range only weapons. they are designed to replace a larger rifle when space is lacking for a soilder. but I would say that in a game like this there should be a tweak of some sort. I say nerf them.

[TruGamer97]

Nerf them but not to a point to where it would not be worth playing as a light

[Hot-Wire]

Just balance them distance wise. I think if lights want to hit long range with an smg, they should either use the light rifles or pistols. SMGs should be designated to close range only.

... but then again I like the bulpdaun, being a good mid to mid-long range smg .

[SinDonor]

Just balance them distance wise. I think if lights want to hit long range with an smg, they should either use the light rifles or pistols. SMGs should be designated to close range only.

... but then again I like the bulpdaun, being a good mid to mid-long range smg .

Bulpdaun shouldn't get touched. It has a low clip. It could use some spread reducing like most weapons, but I think it should keep its range as a bonus for having a smaller mag.

[BiigDaddyDellta]

shotguns are short range and pistols are medium range. I see no reason SMG's should not be medium range and long range with a significant drop off DMG. then of course AR's are long range with full power and snipers extra long range with full power.

[Fetter]

The Bulpdaun is fine as is-- it's a versatile weapon that is constrained by its lack of ammo.

[tokamak]

The lights simply should never stand a chance in an up-front confrontation.