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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

  1. #81
    pragmatic incrementalist thesuzukimethod's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    in the absence of changing anything else, i think extending the animation/equip (time) of DF by a few seconds (or incrementally - see my title) to hit a sweet spot would be ok...i'm worried that the whole:

    OMG this is beast, please nerf <----> OMG this is weak, please beast

    continuum gets polemicized. if i'm getting knocked down time and again by DF of course i want it nerfed. If i'm beasting with it, of course want it retained. but if both are happening (as is the case with me...sometimes i own with it, sometimes i dont even get a shot off), it seems pretty balanced. i feel like i'm on :|| though....i've said my peace - SD...your move?

  2. #82

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by nephandys View Post
    Thought I'd throw Rahdo's comments about DF from the slide finisher thread here (seen in above quote).

    @SinDonor - Don't ever try to melee someone from DF. Part of the point of the ability is to prevent people from doing that to.
    I don't ever melee a DF guy except for lulz when behind a DF'er and he doesn't see me. I meant melee immediately after downing someone. If the ground melee would work better, I'd get them before they'd have a chance to go into DF mode.

  3. #83

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinDonor View Post
    I don't ever melee a DF guy except for lulz when behind a DF'er and he doesn't see me. I meant melee immediately after downing someone. If the ground melee would work better, I'd get them before they'd have a chance to go into DF mode.
    Oh, I gotcha. I totally agree that this should be tweaked to work better.
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  4. #84

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinDonor View Post
    I meant melee immediately after downing someone. If the ground melee would work better, I'd get them before they'd have a chance to go into DF mode.
    This is exactly how I deal with them. Since I use a shotgun as my primary, it's not as if it's a particularly long travel time either. Just bang, jog, stomp. Move on to the next poor fellow. ;P

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  5. #85
    Senior Member Cep's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    The problem as I see it with downed fire is this.

    1. Once you have incapped someone it should be relatively quick to finish them off. This is not the case, I end up shooting just as many shots into them as I did when trying to kill them.

    2. Somehow someone with downed fire suddenly gets the Brink version of the BFG3000 and just nukes anyone who happens to stray in shot. I swear they are more frikkin dangerous when they are downed then when they are up.

    3. Downed fire is too easy. As someone mentioned earlier I think downed fire would benefit if the players vision blacked in and out of conciousness and the aim was thrown off with some sort of tremble/wobble.

    I like downed fire, I would hate to see it go but I have to agree it is one of those abilities that does not seem balanced. Its hard enough trying to kill anyone in this game skilfully, its even more annoying when they then kill you when you just killed them.
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  6. #86
    pragmatic incrementalist thesuzukimethod's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    my (last?) thought is that some of the difficulty/issue has to do with profile (of a standing vs. a prone player).

    if there were an operative ability - the poison/paralysis grenade (?) - that locked you in place (feet cant move, cant jump, can run, etc) and all you could do was spin in a circle aiming, PLUS your weapon spread factor was bumped up to 10, PLUS your health HP was reduced by 17%, 28%, or 41% (depending on body type), we would probably all think this is a pretty OP ability, given how vulnerable a non-moving target is...especially since they are standing up, and body/head shots are pretty easy given we usually run with our crosshairs already pointed in this approx direction (head height).
    but

    since the default position is prone, it's harder to hit from any appreciable distance (spread!), and if you run up towards the prone player, they almost have an advantage since you are upright and a nice big target, while you are trying to get a good angle on their chest/head. yet at the same time, skilled aimers take me out almost instantaneously with headshots when i'm in downed fire (especially lights, which are harder to hit anyway).

    i'm not sure i have a point/suggestion, other than this does help to explain the diversity of experiences...and i would suggest that change (if any) should come in small steps to fix any problems but limit overcorrections (pragmatic incrementalist ftw!)

  7. #87

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cep View Post
    3. Downed fire is too easy. As someone mentioned earlier I think downed fire would benefit if the players vision blacked in and out of conciousness and the aim was thrown off with some sort of tremble/wobble.
    Woot! My suggestion gets some love! Now only if you were a producer for SD....

  8. #88
    Senior Member Hot-Wire's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Instead of doing anything to downfire, just fix the melee bleedout. Sometimes I see myself swinging 2 or 3 times, but missing. IMO if the bleedout animation plays, the single downed individual closest to you gets bleedout. That's how it should work, instead of making direct contact. That would fix a lot of the issues.
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  9. #89

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    I don't know about this talk about the melee finishing move. If I stand still and don't run around and hit the melee button, the +20 appears 90% of time on my screen. It doesn't always register (10%) and has a delay because of the connections but if I don't **** around I never have to swing my gun like four times without getting a kill.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Cep's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinDonor View Post
    Woot! My suggestion gets some love! Now only if you were a producer for SD....
    Hehehe but in all seriousness its a very good idea, I know I have seen familiar things done in other games so it does work.
    >CnN< Ceppy

  11. #91

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1111 View Post
    I don't know about this talk about the melee finishing move. If I stand still and don't run around and hit the melee button, the +20 appears 90% of time on my screen. It doesn't always register (10%) and has a delay because of the connections but if I don't **** around I never have to swing my gun like four times without getting a kill.
    Are you on console or PC? On console, its kind of a bitch to do consistently. I'll have most of their body filling up my screen, yet I swing away and don't get the melee kill. If I back up and reposition my crosshairs to their chest, then try again it usually works. But against a DF opponent, by that point I'm getting filled with lead.

  12. #92
    XXXBrink Hardcore ClubXXX Oschino1907's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Still would like to know what the answer is for guys who have their upper bodies inside walls, bushes, barriers, pile of bodies, etc... There are times you literally cannot see the guy has downed fire and it gives them more then enough time to pick you off or take smart shots and not reveal themselves. Have come across guys in DF for long periods of time as other fire fights were going on (bullets everywhere not clear who is shooting who) and no one thought to shoot the guy downed halfway in a wall behind them or far off inside the corner of a room.
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  13. #93

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Instead of letting everyone use their secondary weapon as the weapon they use for downed fire, what about a pistol that is used exclusively for downed fire? It would be similar to the knife when melee striking with a pistol in hand - the knife is used exclusively for that purpose and you otherwise don't use it/can't switch to it. It's harder to balance downed fire when weapons have so many different variables (damage, rate of fire, etc), using a constant may be easier to balance.

  14. #94

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Last night, nobody with DF was able to even get a single bullet off on me. A heightened awareness of Downed Fire as a possibility every time you drop an enemy, has a large success rate of voiding its power. The trick is when you down more than 3 dudes at once like I do sometimes. 3 with Downed Fire, one may just get ya.

  15. #95

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Yeah, I don't see Downed Fire to be a significant problem at all. In fact, I consider it disadvantageous to take and don't have it on any of my guys. It only works against very bad players or in extremely crowded fights (where you somehow don't get gibbed by nades)-- even bots know to finish players off on the ground. The fact that it reduces your HP on the ground makes this one perfectly balanced in my eyes-- it's easy to take down someone using Downed Fire through simple concentrated attacks. In some cases, I kill people with Downed Fire in the same burst that downed them in the first place, before they even get a chance to shoot.

  16. #96

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fetter View Post
    Yeah, I don't see Downed Fire to be a significant problem at all. In fact, I consider it disadvantageous to take and don't have it on any of my guys. It only works against very bad players or in extremely crowded fights (where you somehow don't get gibbed by nades)-- even bots know to finish players off on the ground. The fact that it reduces your HP on the ground makes this one perfectly balanced in my eyes-- it's easy to take down someone using Downed Fire through simple concentrated attacks. In some cases, I kill people with Downed Fire in the same burst that downed them in the first place, before they even get a chance to shoot.
    Lately I've been killing people who try to use DF outright, so may be coming around on this one!

  17. #97

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Downed fire is OP'd against newbs and easy bots. It's also good in a crazy firefight at an Obj. In the middle of madness, I can usually cap 1-3 people with DF before someone finishes me off or I run out of ammo.

  18. #98
    pragmatic incrementalist thesuzukimethod's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    last night i played a randoms match where I consciously didnt use DF, b/c only one of my opponents had any idea what was happening, and it just felt cheap. (they didnt have any qualms about DFing me though...lol)

    next time i go up against the regulars, i'll likely have a hard time getting a shot off.

    so yeah, i agree...i think it's at a pretty good sweet spot as it is, but can be kind of a monster for new players, especially if they chose "my rank or higher" in matchmaking, and dont even have access to the skill.

  19. #99

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    You can be punished at distance and if you have to re-load against a DF opponent. The inaccuracy of the gun at midrange and your low health as a result of winning a close 1v1 can result in DF feeling OP, but perhaps that's because it was two closely skilled players facing off. Feels like you get the short-end of the stick if you just felt good wining that fight and then get beat by DF. I can only imagine what a new player must feel. Oh well. It is what it is. I am not gonna fight about DF. I refuse to use it as an ability though. Even though I do use the Carb-9 lately ( I waited until post patch) I have to draw the line somewhere. Not a fan of DF. But I can live with it.

  20.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #100
    Game Designer Smooth's Avatar
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    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Are there any weapons in particular that people think are too good when using downed fire?
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