Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 121

  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

  1. #41

  2. #42
    pragmatic incrementalist thesuzukimethod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    under a palo verde tree
    Posts
    659
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfnemesis75 View Post
    Not sure. Either way, Downed Fire is a tad OP.
    I agree with you....until i dont.

    today, played a match with people who all know about downed fire (most use it), and I rarely got a shot off. the only time I did was in terminal when i landed a couple times in places they couldnt see me very easily, but 19/20 kills (deaths for me) ended in a gib (either with the quick stomp, or of the extra bullets variety.

    yes it is a waste of bullets to empty a clip into an incapped player, but it's also safe/easy - and when everyone is doing it, it's tough for DF to be of much use. the corollary to that is i think i was able to get revived all of about 5x in 3-4 matches (b/c of the reduced health in DF)

    as I've said before...DF is totally OP, except when it's UP. lol

    i have nothing productive to contribute other than this:


    get it, i'm waffling?

  3. #43

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    I am not waffling on this one bit. When the level cap was 20, it was less of a headache. With the lvl raised to 24, its showing its imbalance. Just think it needs a nerf.

  4. #44
    pragmatic incrementalist thesuzukimethod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    under a palo verde tree
    Posts
    659
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    sorry brother. i meant that i'm the one who's waffling. i'm pretty sure you can find compelling arguments for/against nerfing DF on these forums...funny thing is i think i've ended up making the case both ways.

  5. #45
    FEAR THE BEARD! AmishWarMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    469
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by thesuzukimethod View Post
    ...(b/c of the reduced health in DF)...
    Which really isn't that reduced (140 vs 170), as Nexolate showed in his screenshots... What appears to actually occur, is bullets to incapacitated players is halved, and only against those with DF do you do full damage... which is a really odd, artificial way of doing it.

    Unless I'm misinterpreting his experiment/data.

  6. #46
    pragmatic incrementalist thesuzukimethod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    under a palo verde tree
    Posts
    659
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by AmishWarMachine View Post
    Which really isn't that reduced (140 vs 170), as Nexolate showed in his screenshots... What appears to actually occur, is bullets to incapacitated players is halved, and only against those with DF do you do full damage... which is a really odd, artificial way of doing it.

    Unless I'm misinterpreting his experiment/data.
    that's how i read it. but i think he thought all incapped players have ~100 health (according to his numbers, i think)...i think the 140 vs 170 is just the two players he captured (one a med, one a heavy?)...nexo?

    and yeah - seems odd. and a bit high (except when it doesnt...see waffle fries above)

  7. #47

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by AmishWarMachine View Post
    Which really isn't that reduced (140 vs 170), as Nexolate showed in his screenshots... What appears to actually occur, is bullets to incapacitated players is halved, and only against those with DF do you do full damage... which is a really odd, artificial way of doing it.

    Unless I'm misinterpreting his experiment/data.
    You are not, I'm glad someone finally decided to comment on it. =)
    ~100HP for both, except plain incapacitated players only take half damage (effectively making it 200HP).

    Regards,
    Nexo

    EDIT: The MaxH stat is simply their maximum normal health, no need to pay attention to that. The fact it's different is probably because the bot had Battle Hardened before I forced Downed Fire on.
    Last edited by Nexolate; 16th Aug 2011 at 08:02.

  8. #48

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    I don't see a problem with DF as it takes a lot less to gib downed players who are using it. It's just another thing to keep track of like always gibbing operatives incase of cortex bomb etc. I always wait a few seconds to make sure a guy isn't using downed fire if I choose not to gib (no enemy medics nearby, not objective critical class etc).

  9. #49
    FEAR THE BEARD! AmishWarMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    469
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by sachewan View Post
    I don't see a problem with DF as it takes a lot less to gib downed players who are using it. It's just another thing to keep track of like always gibbing operatives incase of cortex bomb etc. I always wait a few seconds to make sure a guy isn't using downed fire if I choose not to gib (no enemy medics nearby, not objective critical class etc).
    Downed fire in itself isn't too terribly bad, I think it's made worse by the fact that it takes WAY too many bullets to gib someone, when all it takes is the butt of a rifle.

    Doesn't make any sense, even if you're trying to account for risk/reward.

    Like Apoc said...
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc View Post
    You shouldnt have to kill someone you have already shot down once.
    Last edited by AmishWarMachine; 16th Aug 2011 at 16:32. Reason: Spleling

  10. #50

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    I use downed fire all the time and am amazed at how powerful it is, at times it pays to be downed by the objective just so you can 'ambush' the engineer/ops. i don't think you can nerf the damage side of things as already it only takes a fraction to gib, so if it's going to remain I would say limit it in two other ways;

    1. reduce turning speed to a fraction of normal
    2. set an auto 'bleedout' timeout for say 30s that puts you straight into the next spawnwave.

  11. #51

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Range of motion and stability of weapon should be affected adversely when in Downed Fire! It should hurt too much to shoot behind yourself which is sooooo annoying when you move to their blindside and go to gib them, and they are able to rotate on a dime and shoot you!

  12. #52
    XXXBrink Hardcore ClubXXX Oschino1907's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    662
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by montheponies View Post
    I use downed fire all the time and am amazed at how powerful it is, at times it pays to be downed by the objective just so you can 'ambush' the engineer/ops. i don't think you can nerf the damage side of things as already it only takes a fraction to gib, so if it's going to remain I would say limit it in two other ways;

    1. reduce turning speed to a fraction of normal
    2. set an auto 'bleedout' timeout for say 30s that puts you straight into the next spawnwave.
    Good ideas, could def help. +1
    \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ /
    / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \
    Add me on PSN if you, as I do, have a Mic, a Brain and want to WIN!!!

    Get your bag of popcornS ready, It's go clock now!!!

    If you play the game lame then it will be lame, don't blame the game for YOU being lame!

  13. #53

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinDonor View Post
    Got comms hacked a bunch on Sat by this guy who was maining Ops all day. Anytime he STARTED to Comms Hack me, I couldn't use downed fire. Even if I had my gun out and popped off a round or two, once the CH started, I lost my downed fire ability.

    Might have been updated with the DLC. I remember when I was maining Ops a month ago, downed-fire enemies could still shoot me.

    This has been changed FOR SURE.
    It's always been like that for me (Op is the first class I leveled). Comms Hack = disabled DF. More on topic, my opinion on the issue is to just leave downed fire the way it is. I think it already has enough drawbacks as is. Sure it's annoying to get killed by people with this skill, but 99% of the time it's your own fault for not gibbing or just forgetting about someone that went down.

    I have used downfire with great success at times, but against any player that's worth their salt it's only working if they forgot to gib you.
    Last edited by nephandys; 16th Aug 2011 at 20:46.
    Steam: Neph
    Twitter: @RiFGamers;
    @Nephaerius
    Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius
    RiFGamers Community - Multi-Platform Gaming Community Connecting Players and Increasing Fun

    Add me on any platform, any game, any time. I'm down to play.

  14. #54
    pragmatic incrementalist thesuzukimethod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    under a palo verde tree
    Posts
    659
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by montheponies View Post
    I use downed fire all the time and am amazed at how powerful it is, at times it pays to be downed by the objective just so you can 'ambush' the engineer/ops. i don't think you can nerf the damage side of things as already it only takes a fraction to gib, so if it's going to remain I would say limit it in two other ways;

    1. reduce turning speed to a fraction of normal
    2. set an auto 'bleedout' timeout for say 30s that puts you straight into the next spawnwave.
    a-ok with 1, but with 2, sometimes i used DF to fend off 1-2 people long enough for a medic to get to me....dont want that to be a race against the clock.

    I played another match where I managed to get DF shots off approx 1 out of 20 times (incapped). the team was all over my DF (and used it too), and the few times I did have some success, it was because i fell in a weird place and caught them off guard (but whoever killed me didnt gib me, so their problem, not mine).

    i Like 1 above (has been suggested before, i think in Apoc's thread on DF), b/c it doesnt change this dynamic, but if you fall in a corridor, being able to quickly cover both directions gives you an advantage if they dont see you in time.

  15. #55
    XXXBrink Hardcore ClubXXX Oschino1907's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    662
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by nephandys View Post
    It's always been like that for me (Op is the first class I leveled). Comms Hack = disabled DF. More on topic, my opinion on the issue is to just leave downed fire the way it is. I think it already has enough drawbacks as is. Sure it's annoying to get killed by people with this skill, but 99% of the time it's your own fault for not gibbing or just forgetting about someone that went down.
    Way less then 99%, dont forget at times you may both be almost dead or you run out of ammo shooting them, now they hit the ground with more life and auto switch to secondary ready to fire from a now prone position. Its not way off but def needs some tweaking, way to many pluses and very few draw backs.
    \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ /
    / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \
    Add me on PSN if you, as I do, have a Mic, a Brain and want to WIN!!!

    Get your bag of popcornS ready, It's go clock now!!!

    If you play the game lame then it will be lame, don't blame the game for YOU being lame!

  16. #56

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oschino1907 View Post
    Way less then 99%, dont forget at times you may both be almost dead or you run out of ammo shooting them, now they hit the ground with more life and auto switch to secondary ready to fire from a now prone position. Its not way off but def needs some tweaking, way to many pluses and very few draw backs.
    If you are almost dead or have run out of ammo and are reloading or switching weapon just strafe back and forth or find cover. What's the difference between not having downed your enemy and having to reload vs. having your enemy on the ground with a gun still pointed at you and having to reload? Your tactics should remain the same as your enemy isn't dead yet. The only difference is he is now a stationary target rather than a moving one. For me the vast majority of the time this avoids their downed fire because of the current limitations on it (camera's center is different, vision blurred, spread ridiculous, etc.).

    For me this is another issue where people decide something kills them too much and they want it nerfed rather than trying to find a work around like strafing, moving behind cover, etc. I mean they could just take out downed fire and be done with it. The nerfs people are suggesting here would just make it worthless IMO. With some of the guns DF rocks, but try going down with the Ritchie as is and tell me how amazing DF is. I mean you can still get kills at maybe 3ft, but outside of that it's pure chance.

    The only time DF kills me is if I foolishly forget to gib someone or don't notice a downed player someone else forgot to gib.
    Last edited by nephandys; 16th Aug 2011 at 20:56.
    Steam: Neph
    Twitter: @RiFGamers;
    @Nephaerius
    Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius
    RiFGamers Community - Multi-Platform Gaming Community Connecting Players and Increasing Fun

    Add me on any platform, any game, any time. I'm down to play.

  17. #57

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by nephandys View Post
    For me this is another issue where people decide something kills them too much and they want it nerfed rather than trying to find a work around like strafing, moving behind cover, etc. I mean they could just take out downed fire and be done with it. The nerfs people are suggesting here would just make it worthless IMO. With some of the guns DF rocks, but try going down with the Ritchie as is and tell me how amazing DF is. I mean you can still get kills at maybe 3ft, but outside of that it's pure chance.

    The only time DF kills me is if I foolishly forget to gib someone or don't notice a downed player someone else forgot to gib.
    I agree. I never have a problem with downed fire but I played competitive ET and always gib is something that is pounded into your brain very early on in competitive Rtcw/ET. I think people having trouble with DF now are ones that are new to the style of gameplay in Brink where people are down but not out until you finish them off.

    I actually think that DF is a concession since gibbing in this game seems easier than the old ones. Yeah, there is no one shot melee instant-gib but when someone is being revived or self-reviving there is a HUGE window to shoot them and gib them once and for all. There are no invincibility periods like in previous titles and I think downed fire is a good counterbalance to that. I don't use it myself because the low hp you get when using it isn't a good tradeoff to me, I'd rather be on the ground longer to wait for a medic.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmishWarMachine
    Like Apoc said...
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc
    You shouldnt have to kill someone you have already shot down once.
    I don't quite understand this, aren't you just killing them for the first time? In Brink you don't really 'kill' people when you down them, simply incapacitate them while they wait for a revive or to respawn.

    Honestly, train yourself to always gib bodies before moving on and you'll never have a problem with DF. At the very least it will train you to double check bodies to make sure they aren't using DF before moving on and getting shot in the back.

  18. #58

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    DF spoils the fun of the victor. BRINK tries waaaaay too hard to give people an opportunity to kill someone they normally couldn't. It's beyond accessibility at this point, it's welfare check at the expense of the person who just fragged you. DF and to a lesser extent, self revive, spoil the fun and pace of the game especially when your reload animation is competing with whatever the person you just "killed" is doing. It isn't adding depth or creating tactical scenario, it's plain old being annoying and spoiling the fun. DF is such a grief move the way it works here anyway.

    Fun is fragging your enemy. Annoyance is having to often put as much or more energy into gibbing them. Go ahead, BRINK, give us the countermeasure.. a rank 4 ability of instant gib kills.
    Last edited by sereNADE; 16th Aug 2011 at 21:19.
    bhº

  19. #59
    XXXBrink Hardcore ClubXXX Oschino1907's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    662
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by nephandys View Post
    If you are almost dead or have run out of ammo and are reloading or switching weapon just strafe back and forth or find cover. What's the difference between not having downed your enemy and having to reload vs. having your enemy on the ground with a gun still pointed at you and having to reload? Your tactics should remain the same as your enemy isn't dead yet. The only difference is he is now a stationary target rather than a moving one. For me the vast majority of the time this avoids their downed fire because of the current limitations on it (camera's center is different, vision blurred, spread ridiculous, etc.).

    For me this is another issue where people decide something kills them too much and they want it nerfed rather than trying to find a work around like strafing, moving behind cover, etc. I mean they could just take out downed fire and be done with it. The nerfs people are suggesting here would just make it worthless IMO. With some of the guns DF rocks, but try going down with the Ritchie as is and tell me how amazing DF is. I mean you can still get kills at maybe 3ft, but outside of that it's pure chance.

    The only time DF kills me is if I foolishly forget to gib someone or don't notice a downed player someone else forgot to gib.

    Read my first "rant" post on the subject from earleir in thread, it shows why i am more or less peeved by downed fire. Its not that you cant finish them off easy but at times "glitches" cause it to be much harder then it should be...
    \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ / --- \ /\ /\ /
    / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \ --- / \/ \/ \
    Add me on PSN if you, as I do, have a Mic, a Brain and want to WIN!!!

    Get your bag of popcornS ready, It's go clock now!!!

    If you play the game lame then it will be lame, don't blame the game for YOU being lame!

  20. #60
    FEAR THE BEARD! AmishWarMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    469
    Most Recent Awards:

    Re: Downed Fire: Weapon Tweaks Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by sachewan View Post
    I don't quite understand this, aren't you just killing them for the first time? In Brink you don't really 'kill' people when you down them, simply incapacitate them while they wait for a revive or to respawn.
    Per Nexolate's research found here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nexolate - Post #34 View Post
    Lots of DF-related testing
    It shows that an incapacitated player has nearly the same HP (based on apparent incap HP + bullet damage reduction) as if they were still standing and at full health.

    In DF, that same player still has nearly the same HP as if standing, but bullets to them actually do full damage.

    In essence, you have to put as many rounds into a player once they are down, in order to gib them. Effectively doubling your efforts. Hence the "killing them twice" complaint.

    From a different perspective, and as I mentioned previously, it makes no sense (IMO) that what takes me half of a clip (assuming I land every shot) to do, can be done with the butt of my gun.

    I understand there needs to be a little risk/reward in it (the risk of getting close to a person in DF + the animation time for the curb-stomp, vs the reward of not having to expend a single bullet). However, I don't think it is currently anywhere near balanced in that regard. Again, my opinion, not trying to state this as fact.
    Last edited by AmishWarMachine; 16th Aug 2011 at 21:33. Reason: 'understand' in lieu of 'get'

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •