How much is too much detail?

(Matt) #1

I’m making a map right now, with a lot of geometry. It’s not really high poly stuff, but the map is so large (seriously huge, at least 4x bigger than railgun) and it’s all outdoors, and I’m going for realism… Would you play a map that you get 30FPS in (All you people on GeForce4 level cards) as long as it was fun? Of course there will be areas where everyone will get 70FPS+ and I’ll try to make the high-combat areas like this, but some areas I want to go for huge visuals to impress everybody.

Anyway, vote in the poll.

(Mlehliw) #2

vote fps

I think most mappers here would agree with me and say that detailing is great until it starts to interfere with fps.

(Blackadder_NZ) #3

Ditto Mlehliw (sp?)

If you’re goning to get 30FPS on a Geforce 4 then don’t expect many people to play it.

If its as big as you say, you’ll be using fog?
If not then all I can say is… good luck.

(Loffy) #4

I think it was Sock who said “fps is king” and I think he is right. For some reason people, incl. myself, will always think “what IS this? Lag!” whenever they get the staccato (lag) effect. I mean, when I play on a server and I “feel” that the gameplay is affected by packetloss or whatever, I automatically look at the fps counter. It is a reflex.
BUT, if a map is good, I can still play it. Just for the fun of it.
However, if a map has 30 fps then it will not attract all players.
I remember a map in RtCW called The Dam. Maybe it was SD that made it? It was nice, but apparently there was a fps - drop in a certain area (stairs down to dam generator). And this caused problems. I remember people complaining alot over this, whenever The Dam was discussed. It was a nice, well made map but it got unnecessary negative critique just because there was a drop in fps.
(Does anyone know why there was a fps drop there? Was it the fan?)
Map the map, and release it. I’ll play it.
// Loffy

(SCDS_reyalP) #5

FPS. Visually exciting maps are nice, but what keeps people playing is good gameplay. Low frame rates detract from that, IMO.
Also, if you get 30FPS under normal circumstances, it is going to drop to 15 or less when there is a lot of support fire and stuff like that.

Also, people tend to tune their settings so they get whatever their own minimum acceptable FPS is on the standard maps. If a custom map has much lower FPS, they won’t be happy.

(Chackazz) #6

I’ve heard the best way to deal with this is to make hills/buildings etc and use of ‘hint’ brushes so that the whole map isn’t being constantly drawn at the same time (also fog works well)…basically make it so that it’s only drawing what can physically can be seen…and if you’re going for high poly count on something like an open field…well…yeah you’re going to get low fps and low fps = no play cuz most ppl pitch a fit when you have foliage or trees on your map :wink:

(Lanz) #7

I voted for FPS, but as everyone knows it’s not that simple either. You need to combine the both, no one wants to play an ugly map or low detailed map. So you need to crank out as much detail as possible using all tricks available to you like building with vis in mind, using far planes, hints, antiportals etc. It’s not as simple as saying that one rules out the other (to a point at least).

(Matt) #8

Well, there will be only one area of the map that is super low FPS, because you will literally be able to view a few scale miles of mountains. The further away from the play environment, the lower poly the mountains get. (I’m so smart.) But still we’re talking miles of mountains and miles of trees.

(sock) #9

yep, FPS is king and certainly fighting for first place is also gameplay …

Try this article: http://goat.gamepoint.net/articles.php?id=9
It certainly made some mappers over at Q3W very vocal … :wink:

Sock
:moo:

(Matt) #10

You know what’s crazy? After working on a big section that I was sure would get 10FPS tops on my geforce 1, I ran it, and was getting 300FPS… LOL.

Looks like those who don’t like details are screwed. I’m going to add more.

(Cosmos) #11

I like detail as much as speed like anyone else. I have found a balance where I can keep the good detail or most of it while having a good FPS. On radar, I get around 50FPS in the grass and rain and about 100FPS anywhere else. On FuelDump I can get 120-150 quite easily, this is all with high detail settings. On some custom maps like sillyctf I can break 200FPS. This is with a GeForce 2 Ti overclocked at about 20% on GPU and Memory as well as using detonator 45.23. :drink:

(chavo_one) #12

The author kept talking about how important gameplay is, and how most mappers don’t know what true gameplay is, bet never once does he explain what gameplay is and why most people are unable to get it. :???:

The problem is good gameplay, for the most part, is subjective just like everything else.

As far as FPS, what does that really mean to a mapper? Hardware configs vary per person, whereas r_speeds don’t. As far as triangles rendered, goldrush hits 38k. That’s a crap load of detail.

(Ubiquitous) #13

As sock certainly knows, FPS is king. I enjoy Splash Damage maps greatly, but I’ve always thought it would be cool if they released the maps for pub play, and an enhanced version with much less detail for competition and higher FPS. There are a lot of cool, yet extraneous details in all of the normal maps that could be excluded to make the FPS just a little bit higher. I’m not being a naysayer, don’t get me wrong.

(twiFight) #14

fuck, “30 fps on a geforce 4” ???
I have a Geforce4 and I rarely get over 30 fps NOW (slow cpu)
So if you’d make a more detailed map I’d get below 15 or so.

Sorry, I won’t be playing your map

(sock) #15

This is true, there is certainly alot of extra detail, but trust there was even more detail which had to be removed. This is the bit of mapping I’m not a great fan of, finding the right balance between detail and fps. There is no hard or fast rules about this besides testing your map on various hardware platforms and listening to different testers.

Sock
:moo:

(Drakir) #16

I agree with sock on the part that having to delete real good details in a map is the most boring thing as a mapper. Right now i am working on a map that has alot of details, i think i have over 10.000 brushes already in the map. But i havent yet had any problems with FPS on my lousey GF2pro. So i am hoping that i wont have to delete to much of the details.

I would love an engine where fps wherent a problem, and am hoping that hl2 can be that engine, although they stated that the engine are bsp based.

(DeAtHmAsTeR) #17

hey does corono affect gameplay?

(twiFight) #18

dunno, but 18 bottles of corona does :smiley:

(Thej) #19

ROFLMAO!!! :drink: :banana: :beer:

(Blockbuster) #20

:slight_smile: