Petition: Tighten CoF/Increase Headshot Damage

(justince) #1

I don’t think anything else could sum this up better.
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25784&page=5

The level of which this game rewards individual skill is none. Literally none. I’m totally with this game being a team>individual game, but there needs to be SOME reward for individual skill, especially in shooting. This game takes no skill to outshoot people; completly random number generator based. Tighten the cone of fire, slightly increase headshot damage and slightly decrease body shots and this can help solve the problem.
I understand this is a console game too - keep the heavy wepaons/carb9/gerund where they are and make at least one weapon of each archetype more rewarding if you’re good with them. The ones that would make the most sence are the Rhett and Bulpdaun, since they inheritly have the least amount of ammo in a clip. Tighten the cone of fire on the bulpdaun and/or make it take longer to get bigger and give the Rhett some cod2 stg style recoil and accuracy. Obviously adjusted to this game though.

Am i saying the better team is gonna lose to the worse team because of this? No. But the better fps PLAYER will not get his fair share of wins. You tell me when someone like rapha will like this game when its a 50/50 shot if he will kill someone when he’s obviously a better player. Extreme example, but anyone coming from a game that requires individual skill that likes the concept of this game when it could be easily fixed makes it a /facepalm.

[QUOTE=Brent;314669]I have to agree with Justince here. This game takes maybe 1% of the skill that games like cs and quake take.

What sets amazing players apart from others in this game? Shooting? No, anyone with a pulse can spray & kill people easily as long as they can place their crosshairs near a target. Look at the recoil patterns and spreads, they are an utter joke. When you begin a fight whoever shoots first wins unless you end up having an epiliptic fit mid fight—even then you could probably headshot your enemy before you spaz out.

Movement? No, it took only about a day to master light movement across maps like aquarium for the most efficient manner. Worse players might take a bit longer to learn it but its very easy to learn movement in brink. Brink hands you the easiest and most intuitive methods for travel with no true skill cap.

Teamwork? Seems like it, to some extent. But since when was teamwork purely the only determining factor in a game? Look at TF2, even among a primarily teamwork based game there are potentials for individual skill to change the outcome of matches. Soldier rockets hitting midair shots, scouts making clutch kills and dodges, medics with last second ubers… the list goes on.

Where in Brink do we find the skill cap? Is it solely based on who has more mines on defense? Who gibs bodies faster than medics can revive? Who can grenade launcher before the other?

Where is the skill involved? What teamwork do you even see here that would make people excited to both play and watch this game? What is going to draw in spectators? Who is going to watch a game where anyone can play it to the skill cap?

Right now anybody can shoot anyone else and movement is extremely cookie-cutter. Individual skill plays nearly no part in this game and thus results in a terrible gameplay. Right now there is nothing to set good players apart from bad ones.

You want to know why almost everyone uses the carb-9? Every gun in this game has nearly the same patterns when sprayed. Why not use the gun that does the most damage per second with the highest possible kill-per-clip count in a gun aside from the heavy weapons.

How about adding some skill to shooting and fixing things that are toxic to gameplay. Make guns actual take some thought to shoot and have different benefits/risks/skillcaps. Make movement more dynamic in maps to allow for individuals to increase the effect they can have on maps. Do something about defense being absolutely imbalanced in maps.

Make this game less of a joke in the competitive world, because right now I’m pretty sure I could pull some POD bots on 1 from 1.6 and they would do just as good as anyone with a carb9.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Redshft;314802]No it wont. If you were the LEAST bit informed about this game. You would know that while performing ANY SMART moves your accuracy to the worst possible amount.

I agree with Justince, this game has no room for individual player skill. Hip firing and even iron sighting is too random and can not be controlled to a point where aim will be anything more than “Keep your cursor on the target while holding mouse1.”

Map design and the terrible accuracy with SMART moves make any sort of trick shots useless or impossible.

.[/QUOTE]

Give this support, and maybe this game can live longer than failops.

EDIT: After giving more thought, although it would require testing, it’s possible that just reducing body damage and leaving headshot damage the way it is will increase the incentive to headshot without really wrecking the time to kill people.

(Decayed) #2

/signed 1234

(Bullveyr) #3

/signed 2345

(RaKeD) #4

I have to agree to some extend.The random bullet srpead or/CoF is really something horrible for fps gaming, aiming and skill in a fps game!It s the worst thing that happend to fps imo.

It basically takes away the art of beeing able to compensate for recoil and puts the success of a fire fight into the hands of pretermined values.

Random bullet spread is pretty unpredictable and results in what we have with smg’s and close quarter combat atm,spray and pray.

SD actually went the right route in my opinion and uses recoil, it s just the balance of power between bullet spread and recoil which tends to go more into the direciton of bullet spread.

With some adjustments,meaning more recoil and less bullet spread, this game will have the best and intense shooting experience since a long time.

This is an extract from another post of me to explain how to make shooting skills more important in Brinkk.I am interested in your opinion on it:

"I am not a big fan of aritifical bullet spread/CoF no matter what weapon or class.In my opinion it reduces the skill factor in a game and benefits lucky shots/headshots.Y-axis recoil is great as it can be compensated and needs skill, it s acutally in the “hands” of the player.X-axis recoil is also welcome as long as it moves only into one direction or slightly to the left and right, e.g. you hold down the trigger and the weapons crosshair/ironsights moves up (Y-axis recoil) and to the right(X-axis recoil).

In my opinion there isn’t even a need to give SMG’s or any automatic weapon crazy strong bullet spread to make them not effective on distance as this can be achieved by reducing the damage it deals at long range.This would reduce this spray and pray mentalitly, bring more skill into the game and make aiming more important".

Furthermore Recoil makes shooting so much more intense, just imagine using a minigun with a lot of recoil just pushing itself up and you really have to work against it and work that weapon to hold it on target.Atm all heay machine guns have either stong bullet spread and a big crosshair from the start(meaning not much accuracy) or uncontrolable x-axis reocil(Maximus).

(Rahabib) #5

personally, I would like to see a tighten only for the assault weapons - possibly even just for sights to open up a long range game of sorts. If you do it to all weapons, then SMGs will still be better. It doesnt need to be a ton, and only with IS, but even just 10-20% will make a huge difference if you can pull off headshots consistently with these weapons.

headshot damage would also be nice for all weapons. less spray.

might I add, engy remove needs to be 2x longer.

for consideration - pips recover 10% slower, adrenaline lasts 20% less, scavenge is a bit faster, and weapon buffs increase only 25%.

or just give us the SDK and we can see what we can do. I am losing interest in this game fast.

(justince) #6

If you reduce damage and tighten cone and slightly increase headshot damage, it will balance out the easy of tracing bodys and make the person who traces heads better wins. It’s a simple concept, and thats why it should be applied to smgs especially since rifles are mainly ads mid range.

(DR3N) #7

I support this thread. :cool:

(Rahabib) #8

thats fine, its just that everyone will still play with the SMGs, only now everyone will get more headshots. I was just looking for a way to make assault rifles more viable.

However, If I had to choose your solution over the status quo, I am for it.

(crazyfoolish) #9

I have never really understood this point of view. If i die in Brink it is because i either let someone attack me sneakily (mine, cortex etc) or because i was beaten in a firefight. The fights last for a few seconds which is more than enough for the more skillful player to win.

(LaughingWhale) #10

The way maps are set up now it is pretty easy to avoid getting sprayed down. You haven’t taken into account how effective it is to weave back and forth from cover. Know when to run around someone or back off is key in aquarium at least where there is a large amount of debris and cover. But I do agree with the more damage to head, tighter spray cones so I will /sign. I am very happy with the game currently though.

(prophett) #11
  • 1 for reducing spread and increasing headshot damage
(CrashnBurn86) #12

i think everyone should stop complaining about **** and play the game. A more skillfull player will take out someone less skilled because he will be better at strafeing and aiming… or jump and running back and forth avoiding the damage. Its not all about how you shoot , its also about avoiding the damage, knocking them down, ect… also have any of you fired a real run? if ur runnign back and forth towards someone and the person your going for is doing the same do you realize how far off your bullet patterns are going to be ? your not going to get a headshot everytime. Its like you guys want to just run around getting headhsots and thats all you care about. Just because your cross hairs are near there head doesnt mean your going to hit it. go to the shooting range and strafe left to right with your crosshairs on the target. Tell me where u bullets end up.

(Boltthrower) #13

I agree a thousand percent on the spread issue. Actually the only reason I am still playing the game is in hope this gets reduced if not I will prolly move on. I feel HS damage is about where it should be as I am a rtcw/et player and I am used to the 3 in the head and your dead rule. If the spread was reduced the HS damage would not need to be upped as players with good aim can track moving players and drop them if they are accurate, otherwise we might as well just play every single other shooter where it has the I saw you before you saw me boom your dead 1 shot head shot mechanic. So sorta signed I guess.

(CrashnBurn86) #14

Also think about what your saying… So you want the spread reduced and headshot damaged increased… I believe the headshot damage on a carb 9 right now is around 25. So say they increase that to 30 and spread is decreased so then lights are dieing in less then a second with 4 bullets to the face. Seems like all of you want this to be turned into every other fps on the market. If your wanting the spread reduced then damage needs to be reduced as well. you simply cant have both.

(justince) #15

No, instead of spraying at the chest which a 5 year old can do as well as any good player, you have to trace heads.

Reducing chest damage will compensate and allow the best shot to win.

(chasm) #16

+1, more recoil, less spread.

(Redh3lix) #17

As with “ETPro” for Wolf:ET, we need BrinkPro

(justince) #18

[QUOTE=Rahabib;316287]thats fine, its just that everyone will still play with the SMGs, only now everyone will get more headshots. I was just looking for a way to make assault rifles more viable.

However, If I had to choose your solution over the status quo, I am for it.[/QUOTE]

I think if they give the Rhett a damage buff, make it accurate, and give it SET recoil patterns that are rough (similar to 1.6, as you can recognize a recoil pattern and adapt if you’re VERY good at spraying) but make it easier since it isn’t 1.6, lol. Like the rigor of a stg in cod2 but consistent patterns, maybe 4 or 5.

(m3lior) #19

/signed, in regards to less spread. Damage increase is unnecessary, and not game breaking.

Also, SMG / AR difference should be effectiveness at range, period. You shouldn’t be able to quickly spray down an opponent with a Carb9 from over 40 feet away.

(Mattc0m) #20

I’m strongly against anything that changes core gameplay. I hope some of the issues can be addressed in regular play, but if it comes down between a mod that changes the core gameplay between “professional” and “vanilla” gameplay, it creates a divide that kills the competitive scene. If these changes can be added into the “vanilla” version of the game, patch in by Splash Damage, then sure–go for it. But creating two versions of the same game is just bad news.

What people fail to realize is that in order for a game to succeed in competition, it needs to grow, or at least not shrink. The competition scene will shrink a lot after the first 1 or 2 months as people go back to their old communities or new games are released. This is a given.

The growth that counters that comes from teams being formed after playing the actual game. As casual players get better, or former pros from other games play Brink, they get an itch to take it to the next level. They’re elevated (which is usually a rough transition) from casually playing Brink to joining in scrims, PUGs, etc. You’ve got your next wave of competitive gamers.

What a Pro mod often does is essentially say “hey, new gamers, we’re not interested in you.” It’s the “experienced” competitors creating an artificial wall between the core game and “their” version of the game. It does nothing but affirm the top team’s position, creates barriers for new teams, and stagnates growth of the scene.

Often times a pro mod will have good intentions and brings needed additions like demos, ready up mode, better spectator features, better anti-cheat abilities, and minor gameplay changes like spawn times. I’m all for this. In fact, I was hugely in favor of ETQWPro because it brought so many needed changes. But, major changes to accuracy, damage, guns, speed, health, buffs, etc. can be introduced on top, embraced by a vocal “hardcore” competitive crowd, and ultimately it’s that same “vocal” crowd that will move back to whatever game community they’re so found of (whether it’s Counter Strike, Call of Duty, or Enemy Territory).

Brink is not those games. Yes, gunplay can be a bit spammy. Yes, sometimes nades, mines, and buffs play a bigger role than an individual’s aim. What you fail to realize is that it’s a team game and teamplay, strategies, tactics, and the ability for teams to adapt are not only more important, but it’s the focus of the game.

Please embrace Brink for what it is, or move on. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to keep a community united (playing the SAME GAME). Furthermore, it frustrates me, because the same audience that calls for big gameplay changes are NOT the people who see playing 2 or 3 seasons from now, living with the consequences of their decisions, because they’re ultimately unsatisfied with the game or want something that game simply isn’t.