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Thread: Competitive scene

  1. #81

    Re: Competitive scene

    1. Everyone can just play with the same gun/classes/gear/etc or cutting OP content= balance.

    In it's simplest form it works, but no one wants to remove the dynamic elements of this game. I agree with adjustment based on maintaining the variety of the base game (try to make it work before its cut). The one thing no one wants is your standard "uber gun+gear" forcing anyone wanting to survive to shut out the rest of the content. If balance is achieved, then there is no reason anyone will need to hesitate when they choose how to play the game.

    Setting rules for matches however is a tricky matter and needs to be recognized as separate from initial game balance... ie class/weapon limits etc for league play. You could have a full team of uber snipers that make the gun seem like it is too powerful, or any gun for that matter. Or perhaps an annoying medic train that seems unkillable. I think that any of these things are reasonable strategies accompanied by obvious weaknesses. One thing to think about though is that when a specific variable is difficult to determine as needing some restrictions or possibly complete removal, is what competitive limitations actually achieve. A certain weapon/class may not be removed, but instead limited to a certain amount. It doesn't cut the content necessarily, but instead gives it more importance. For example you usually see something like 1 sniper allowed. This actually causes that 1 sniper position, if chosen to be used of course, to increase in strategical importance as it is now solely unique to what it provides. This whole subject can be very arguable, but in a sense it doesn't really do much harm and somehow delivers much cleaner game play. Essentially it encourages a more saturated lineup of the standard class/gun layout while allowing the option for a specific amount of the "situationally more powerful" stuff to be mixed in.

    It's a much more complicated process than most think, and it sucks how much the term "competitive" get's generalized or flat out hated on. I might also point out that most "comp haters" tend to (1) become addicted to defective game elements as they are important to their performance Or (2) completely disregard the intensive analysis and consideration that is in play when the "competitive state" of a game is being determined. I just hope that anyone who decides to enter such discussions are thinking in the best interest of the game and not simply on their impulses; don't get me wrong that that goes for everyone on both sides.

  2. #82
    strangely curious gee666's Avatar
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    Re: Competitive scene

    Clan: OCB
    Country: World Wide
    Web Site: http://www.ocb-sgs.co.uk/
    Info: Started as a fun scottish clan in ETQW and things went from there, playing comp as well as being odd in BFBC2 so will prob do the same in Brink usualy no server rules bar no glytching or being an arse
    have own TS3 and servers which we share with sGs and have a space for friends and other clans
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  3. #83
    Senior Member Weapuh's Avatar
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    Re: Competitive scene

    Quote Originally Posted by INF3RN0 View Post
    1. Everyone can just play with the same gun/classes/gear/etc or cutting OP content= balance.

    In it's simplest form it works, but no one wants to remove the dynamic elements of this game. I agree with adjustment based on maintaining the variety of the base game (try to make it work before its cut). The one thing no one wants is your standard "uber gun+gear" forcing anyone wanting to survive to shut out the rest of the content. If balance is achieved, then there is no reason anyone will need to hesitate when they choose how to play the game.

    Setting rules for matches however is a tricky matter and needs to be recognized as separate from initial game balance... ie class/weapon limits etc for league play. You could have a full team of uber snipers that make the gun seem like it is too powerful, or any gun for that matter. Or perhaps an annoying medic train that seems unkillable. I think that any of these things are reasonable strategies accompanied by obvious weaknesses. One thing to think about though is that when a specific variable is difficult to determine as needing some restrictions or possibly complete removal, is what competitive limitations actually achieve. A certain weapon/class may not be removed, but instead limited to a certain amount. It doesn't cut the content necessarily, but instead gives it more importance. For example you usually see something like 1 sniper allowed. This actually causes that 1 sniper position, if chosen to be used of course, to increase in strategical importance as it is now solely unique to what it provides. This whole subject can be very arguable, but in a sense it doesn't really do much harm and somehow delivers much cleaner game play. Essentially it encourages a more saturated lineup of the standard class/gun layout while allowing the option for a specific amount of the "situationally more powerful" stuff to be mixed in.

    It's a much more complicated process than most think, and it sucks how much the term "competitive" get's generalized or flat out hated on. I might also point out that most "comp haters" tend to (1) become addicted to defective game elements as they are important to their performance Or (2) completely disregard the intensive analysis and consideration that is in play when the "competitive state" of a game is being determined. I just hope that anyone who decides to enter such discussions are thinking in the best interest of the game and not simply on their impulses; don't get me wrong that that goes for everyone on both sides.
    *applause*


  4. #84

    Re: Competitive scene

    They way you represented it here Inferno contains nothing to hate on.

    The only thing that is questionable is that restricting weapons and classes seems like symptom treatment. If this happens then there's a clear indicator that there's something wrong with the game balance.

  5. #85
    Tbaggin since the 90's Apples's Avatar
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    Re: Competitive scene

    Quote Originally Posted by tokamak View Post
    If this happens then there's a clear indicator that there's something wrong with the game balance.
    The game can be balanced, but unfortunatly the players arent Thats why some slight restrictions in number of weapon / classes is a good thing IMO, see it as a specialist VS generalist unit for instance. The specialists are harder to grasp well but they do many many unexpected damages (hear broad range of tactics) when used correctly, while the generalist are more easy to grasp, but the range of tactics they can cover is pretty limited. So here it add some tactical point, because if everyone can choose to start with 5 rocket launcher the specialist/generalist thingy is becoming null and void : i.e drop in diversity.

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  6. #86

    Re: Competitive scene

    ETQW already added diminishing returns to that. The more field ops the less efficient each field ops became. I think that's a far more elegant way of countering it than enforcing hard limits.

  7. #87

    Re: Competitive scene

    Quote Originally Posted by tokamak View Post
    ETQW already added diminishing returns to that. The more field ops the less efficient each field ops became. I think that's a far more elegant way of countering it than enforcing hard limits.
    Which wasn't enough so they had to limit each teams' fire support to 1 and prevent more than one vampire been thrown at once time with a recharge time for the entire team before another could be thrown.

    I don't foresee such drastic measures in Brink as the team sizes are going to be very close to what the game was design for.
    Last edited by .Chris.; 26th Jan 2011 at 15:23.

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  8. #88

    Re: Competitive scene

    For example you usually see something like 1 sniper allowed. This actually causes that 1 sniper position, if chosen to be used of course, to increase in strategical importance as it is now solely unique to what it provides. This whole subject can be very arguable, but in a sense it doesn't really do much harm and somehow delivers much cleaner game play. Essentially it encourages a more saturated lineup of the standard class/gun layout while allowing the option for a specific amount of the "situationally more powerful" stuff to be mixed in.
    Thats on the money.
    What makes it really enjoyable are the mini duels those restrictions create.

    It also rewards teams where their specialists are fantastic at other roles - simply because some objectives do not require that role to be played, and you dont want to be playing a man down because of it.
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  9. #89

    Re: Competitive scene

    but if there is no "sniper", pre-concieved ideas of competitive balance cannot be pre-determined, no over-powered specialists means a different way to balance
    Quote Originally Posted by MistaSparkle View Post
    and every time Nail comes in and ruins it

  10. #90

    Re: Competitive scene

    Since Brink has been designed to play in an 8v8 environment, I would say it has a much better chance than other game titles. Things tend to be tweaked and cut when a game designed for massive player battles becomes a 5v5 or 6v6 (this is the main reason most things get changed). As long as the devs work a solid balance into Brink, I am sure there won't be nearly as much to be done on the community side. I am hoping that is the reason for all the delays .

  11. #91

    Re: Competitive scene

    Clan name: Team Cross Breed
    Country: USA/NA
    Web page: http://www.team-crossbreed.net
    Info: RTCW, ET:QW, ET, TF2, BC2, etc etc etc. Since 2001!
    Members: Roster Unknown ATM.

  12. #92

    Re: Competitive scene

    Quote Originally Posted by INF3RN0 View Post
    Since Brink has been designed to play in an 8v8 environment, I would say it has a much better chance than other game titles. Things tend to be tweaked and cut when a game designed for massive player battles becomes a 5v5 or 6v6 (this is the main reason most things get changed). As long as the devs work a solid balance into Brink, I am sure there won't be nearly as much to be done on the community side. I am hoping that is the reason for all the delays .
    Hopefully little or no changes to the base game will be required. Possibly they will even include some built in map changes for when a map is played in stopwatch mode to make it offensivly biased instead of (hopefully) neutrally biased for objective or campaign mode or whatever they are calling the standard pub mode.

    It's probably a little early to be recruiting for Brink, but you might as well throw Geezer Gaming in there for the list of clans which will have comp teams. I'm sure we'll even have enough members for probably an 8 team intra-clan league (similar to what TAW does so well in ETQW). It's not quite as serious but has the benefits of being able to develop strats and try them out with the same team for multiple weeks in organized competition. It's really fun and if anyone has ever wanted a more organized teamplay experience this is a great way to get it.

    I should add we don't have any rules as far as times you must show up, and there's no real hierarchical structure or anything like that. The only requirement is that you have a mature attitude (not necessarily mature in age) and you must game with us on Teamspeak for awhile to prove it before being voted in.

    Popular games for clanmembers now are BlackOps, Eve Online, Killing Floor, Bad Co. 2, and some of us are still stuck on ETQW refusing to give up the ghost (or buy anything published by Activision).

    www.geezergaming.com

  13. #93
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    Re: Competitive scene

    I'm looking forward to joining a high skilled clan. Anyone who wants a top aimer let me know.

    Fav RTCW weapon: Panzer + Thompson
    Fav ET weapon: MG34 + Thompson
    Fav class : Medic
    Fav map: Beach and Goldrush

    Fav MW2 weapon: tar21+tube, oma
    Fav BLOPS weapon: Ballistic knives, marathon

    Best BLOPS KDR: 153-4
    Last edited by gunzo; 2nd Feb 2011 at 21:02.

  14. #94

    Re: Competitive scene

    how did I know he was a medic ?
    Quote Originally Posted by MistaSparkle View Post
    and every time Nail comes in and ruins it

  15. #95

    Re: Competitive scene

    Quote Originally Posted by gunzo View Post
    I'm looking forward to joining a high skilled clan. Anyone who wants a top aimer let me know.

    Fav RTCW weapon: Panzer + Thompson
    Fav ET weapon: MG34 + Thompson
    Fav class : Medic
    Fav map: Beach and Goldrush

    Fav MW2 weapon: tar21+tube, oma
    Fav BLOPS weapon: Ballistic knives, marathon


    Best BLOPS KDR: 153-4
    This must be one of the most retarded things I have ever heard. Tard 21 + Ture + OMA? Ballistic Knives + Marathon? Mate, that is pathetic. Neither of those need "skill" or any game knowledge or sense at all, thus you are calling yourself a top aimer.

    Pff... What did the community grow into these days...

  16. #96
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    Re: Competitive scene

    Why are you being rude im just telling them my skills.

  17. #97

    Re: Competitive scene

    LOL u dont need skillz to stab an enemy in cod dude ,you should seriously removes this ,its bad for your bio.

    There is no need for a mod like in cod4(promod) if the choices the developers give to their players involve :
    1)class restriction
    2)weapon lock
    3)set timer and objectives
    4)good assignment of buttons or just allow custom cfg with all of the above straight to the dedi server

    but i believe they gonna balance it very good by themselves.

  18. #98
    PC Advocate Auzner's Avatar
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    Re: Competitive scene

    Quote Originally Posted by nincek View Post
    Pff... What did the community grow into these days...
    He joined today or something so the community might be okay for now.

  19. #99

    Re: Competitive scene

    Waaahhh? No SGS? Aleborg will **** a giant ****ing brick.

    (I see you already have OCB, good good )
    <-- Missing the glorious days of ET:QW

  20. #100

    Re: Competitive scene

    Quote Originally Posted by INF3RN0 View Post
    Since Brink has been designed to play in an 8v8 environment, I would say it has a much better chance than other game titles. Things tend to be tweaked and cut when a game designed for massive player battles becomes a 5v5 or 6v6 (this is the main reason most things get changed). As long as the devs work a solid balance into Brink, I am sure there won't be nearly as much to be done on the community side. I am hoping that is the reason for all the delays .
    Did I not read some time ago that SD were also balancing the game with 4v4 to 6v6 in mind specifically for competition? In other words, aiming for 8v8 but making smaller numbers work just as well?

    Certainly worked in RtCW and ET - in fact, my hazy memory suggests that our 6v6 clan matches seemed more suited to the game than public play.

    goat

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