Warbell Redux - call for suggestions


(]UBC[ McNite) #1

Hi guys,

its been a bit boring without mapping lately and since QW doesn’t offer the fun it promised, I thought of improving Warbell.
Since Warbell has been running on a lot of servers, there should be quite some ideas out there on how to improve this map.

What I m looking for are serious ideas, laid out in a decent way, preferably with a pic/ short sketch, including information why and how this change might benefit the map.
Of course its impossible to include all new ideas, and I m not promising anything, since we ll discuss all ideas internally anyways.

This is the link to the original thread on the release of Warbell:
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=142405#post142405

And since the new forum has limits of 8 pics per post (no comment), here come the old Warbell pics:

View towards the Guardhouse

Backside of the Guardhouse, in the 2nd stage (nice foam carnage) :sunglasses:

The Caves that lead towards the Guardhouse and from the Guardhouse to the Graveyard

Guardhouse and Guardhouse stairs - either get up here for the flag, or destroy the Guardhouse Gate

Hidden Room in the Guardhouse - here the Book of Death was locked away (book by EB, painting by Kach–>)

View at the old Abbey

View at the old Abbey with Crypt Gate from the Graveyard

View at the Belltower with the Warbell (thx EB!), you can see the Warbell Mechanism at the platform


(]UBC[ McNite) #2

More pics:

Abbey Main Hall looking towards the entrance room of the Inner Sanctum

In the crypts… here be MONSTERS (no kidding) (and they eat players too) :smiley:

Abbey Church where the monks prayed that guarded the evil site for centuries

Inner Sanctum and Bellrope on the first level - go here to toll the Warbell:

Inner Sanctum and Altar - Axis need to put the Book of Death here to open the Sacrifice Portals:

Inner Sanctum and Sacrifice Portals - the Wargood is already awaiting a Sacrifice (orange portal) and Allies try to keep Axis away from the portal:

Inner Sanctum and Sacrifices - one Axis player just made it into the portal sacrificing himself to the Wargod:


(nUllSkillZ) #3

Just a quick thought:
If those rays appear where axis can sacrifice the roof could be removed and rays could reach to the sky.
Would also be a visible feedback from outside that the axis now can sacrifice.

Not sure about another idea:
If command post is build there could be an antenna outside.
Also as visual feedback (Fueldump Axis command post for example).
Not sure if this is used somewhere else on stock or custom maps.
Is it possible to setstate lights / dlights?
Could have red lights for Axis command post and blue ones for Allied command post.

Personally I think that there is not much room for improvements.
One of the best maps I’ve ever played.


(]UBC[ McNite) #4

Hi Null, nice 2 see u around :slight_smile:

I like both visual feedback ideas, was actually thinking of how to do the ray thing with a realistic effect.
The light on the antenna could be done with a blinking shader. Dlights kill performance, i wouldn’t dream of using them outdoors.

How about map balance? Did it improve with ppl getting to know it, and of course the use of the ETPro mapscripts providing ammo and blocking off the roof room at the belltower?


(shagileo) #5

I really love this map, it’s an all time favorite on many servers !!
Great job guys !

I got a little suggestion. (I’m not sure if it was already suggested, but I’m a little short on time so I’m just gonna fire it away)

The map is as a good as perfect, imo. The only thing that can need a change is the fact that the portals aren’t destroyable.
I mean, if axis have built the bellmechanism and tossed the bell, the only thing for allies to do is defend like hell (gotta love the wordplay). Anyhow, there are a lot of ways to the portals themselves, so here’s my little idea:

When Axis built the bellmechanism and the bell is tossed:

-> allies can blow up the bellmechanism again and axis need to repeat the whole procedure

Advantages:

  • better defense for allies

Disadvantages:

  • if allied team is too strong, axis will get bored
  • it would need a longer maptime, and 30 minutes is already enough

OR

Some kind of constructible at the second floor (see screenshot)
when portals are activated, axis team can easily enter the portals from both upstairs as downstairs.
If you put in 2 allied constructibles as e.g. gates or materials to block the upper part, axis team is forced to go and enter from below. The constructibles are both destroyed by axis satchel.

Advantages:

  • better defense allies
  • Axis covops has a higher value
  • allied engineer has a higher value
  • no longer maptime
  • axis can destroy gates with satchel

Disadvantages:

  • XP whorage ^^ (but who cares, it’s a teamplay game after all)
  • if axis has no covops, axis is pretty mutch “screwed”

Good luck with the remake and again: great job for the original warbell !


(isbowhten) #6

i would leave it as it is.
it is a great map. where the bell has to be repaired is a caulk on the side of one of the roofes, btw:P
just leavt irt as it is and make a new map


(th0rn3) #7

Yes remove the the roof as nullskillz said, BUT to avoid arty spamming clip missle it! I like the command post idea. Maybe make more areas enterable, some secret (very secret) tunnels are always cool.
Maybe release another version of destroyed warbell map, would be very interesting…


(-SSF-Sage) #8

About the shagileo’s first idea, about redoing the whole procedure. That would make it almost impossible map to finish, unless you had fair ownage. Even now it is sometimes hard to finish, because it’s sometimes like impossible to get up to the repairing place with an engi and get it constructed, and almost impossible by engi alone. Axis is pretty much done without good teamplay in this map anyway.

The gameplay is really good atm, I would not make changes, and the glitches and small bugs that exists doesn’t make it worth to do a fix version for it. I’d suggest you to make a new great map. :wink:

Edit. after reading th0rn3’s post:

Make a new map with totally inverted thing. Different objectives to do but idea would be reversed. Like allies are attacking to kill/destroy/what ever the wargods and axies are trying to stop it. Would be a cool serie. :smiley:


(th0rn3) #9

Yea, somethng like “the wargod has completly destroyed the map, and allies are atempting to stop him, because they were unable to do so last time” :smiley:


(shagileo) #10

Hmm, although I love the mapatmosphere , I don’t think there’s a need for a sequel.
Because the map is so unique, making some kind off ‘we’re back and better’ would make it kinda … cheap.

Or make some kind off small editings like suggested above (like radar system etc etc…) or make an entire new map.
This map is too special to make a sequel out of it.

Or if you still want the same subject (like Thorne and Sage said), make a whole new setting : different town, different place, different objectives.(I’m not sure if that’s what Sage means, but if so : hehe … if not : not hehe ) .


(nUllSkillZ) #11

Roof idea:
Haven’t thought of arty and airstrike.
Roof could only be broken where the “rays” are.


(-SSF-Sage) #12

[QUOTE=shagileo;184883]

Or if you still want the same subject (like Thorne and Sage said), make a whole new setting : different town, different place, different objectives.(I’m not sure if that’s what Sage means, but if so : hehe … if not : not hehe ) .[/QUOTE]

Yes I meant totally new map, new gameplay, layout, style etc… But with keeping the wargod idea, and making it reversed as I explained above.


(EvilJohn) #13

I would leave your good work alone. If its not broke, don’t fix it. Make a new map to add to your legacy. :0

Edit: It would be like someone trying to make adlernest, frostbite, or supply better. Ohh Nooo


(Diego) #14

My friends and I run this map on a server at work from time to time. We usually have very small teams, like 5 on 5 playing it on ET pro without the mapscript fix. Under these conditions, the Axis usually make quick work of the first objective, capturing the forward spawn and blowing the doors to keep it.

With a quick rush, delievering the book can be quite easy, or extremely difficult, depending on the allies team work. But under these conditions, it is almost always extremely difficult to build the bell mechanism and ring the bell. We usually find that the allies have an easy time camping the bell mechanism with a fops, covy, a med or 2 and an engineer in the room across from the mechanism. (which is usually where the eng is waiting with a rifle grenade.

Granted, the mapscrip fix would help that problem out alot. But, I think it would be more helpful to allow the axis players a way to climb up into that attic since all other avenues of attack are out in the open. Perhaps we could try an etpro mapscript fix that would place a ladder at the opening in the floor?

Since the allies do have the ability to destry the mechanism before the bell is rung, that is a big enough advantage for them. If you give them the ability to completely interrupt the sacrificial process, then the map should have a longer time. However, I have noticed that noobie engineers will waste time trying to blow the bell mechanism after the bell has been rung when they should be defending the sacrificial chamber instead. Perhaps you can remove the mechanism TOI after the bell is rung so allied engineers no longer try to blow it??

At the same time, adding visible beams above the rooftops, might confuse axis players and they might try to sacrifice themselves up there instead of inside the chamber.

Anyway, I really think this is a very good map and not in need of a major redux.


(kamikazee) #15

So far, it seems there is no real change posted which needs more than an ETPro script.

I would also keep it down to that, as any map changes will probably yield only more complaints.


(Manwhore) #16

Agree. This map is a classic, and mostly it’s a bad idea to try to improve a classic.


(stealth6) #17

Firstly Welcome back! :smiley:
Secondly I like the map as is no changes needed.

(But if you must make a remake then just make the objectives more obvious, total noobs take ages to figure out where to go)


(bo`) #18

Please make it competition ready :slight_smile: It’s such a beautiful and detailed map. It would be a shame to just play it on overcrowded publics from time to time.

I could probably write a newspost at the biggest competition site for ET (Crossfire.nu) and ask for feedback to balance the map, there will be a lot of guys who like the map and would want it for cups and leagues also. Furthermore there would be the possibility to contact some of the top players to help you. In case you will keep the map as it is (like some already mentioned above), you can maybe do a tournament edition for competition only (Warbell_te). That wouldn’t be much of additional work I suppose. And in case you start a whole new project, I can try to help you balance the map right from the beginning in the same way. Some testgames or showcups can be done for that also.

But now back to topic :wink: From a competitions point of view, there was that last stage - if I remember right - that was not defendable for allies. As junping into the rays was far to easy. shagilo already mentioned some ideas to fix that. Right now I can’t think of any more crucial improvements or changes.

So, just let me know what you plans are :slight_smile:

Contact: #rockit @ QuakeNet - 311170116 (ICQ)


(]UBC[ McNite) #19

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. Looking at what you all wrote there seems no need for changes. That s nice to hear, because it means my map turned out well balanced too :slight_smile:

@ mapscripts: iirc, with a mapscript, you can only put in models. That means, its not possible to build in the radar stuff just with an etpromapscript, right? It would at least need an additional pk3 with the model on the server.

@ bo: I thought its the point of a competition map that there are no full holds. Is it a problem of the axis being in the rays to easy, or of spawnblocking so the allies can’t properly set up defense? Because that s a huge difference.
I m sorry to say that i m not very interested in any discussions on crossfire, unless the general whine and “new maps suck unless i don’t pawn on them from minute one, without me having to look up the obj” style changed. Look up warbell threads on there, and you ll know why.


(bo`) #20

I can understand your bias concerning Crossfire and the whine but let me come forward with a proposal. I write a news/forum post wanting the community to give constructive feedback to what is needed to be changed or added to the map to make it ready for competition. In case you receive proper feedback and critics, would you then change something? Or at least build a tournament edition which wouldn’t hurt the public community in any way and wouldn’t change your original (successful) map for publics.