Market Garden feedback

[Vardiss]

Hey, I love the map! It’s one of the few that’s really good for large teams and its really good for snipers too.

There’s one main problem that I’ve found playing the Allies. When you fight your way down the shelled street turn the first corner and are past the German halftrack and fighting to turn the second corner, the Germans still spawn BEHIND you at the halftrack!!! This means you have them coming from the front and behind and its essentially impossible to win unless you sneak. But the real fun of the map is playing the intense house-to-house combat.

Could you do something like put a flag at the halftrack so that when the allies control that area they axis aren’t spawing in their rear?

[monty]

Hi,

First off, fantastic map, it looks great and at times feels like the film as you run through empty streets, covering each other and trying to get to the bridge before it blows. Knowing that the Germans are around somewhere and that they aren’t old men and Hitler Youth either!! (I must try it using the British para skin and voices for extra realism).

On the playability front (I’ve only ever played it as an ally) I find that even if you manage to clear the Axis out of the shelled street (and there’s never any problems with cloud cover preventing the RAF flying, based on the number of airstrikes that hit that steet!) you usually find they respawn just as you’re trying to get past the half track which is damned inconvenient unless a Dutch friendly lets you hide in their attic!

Seriously, I don’t know if you tried putting more re-spawn control flags in and found problems with the number of players being too high for one or two respawn sites but this might help.

To avoid it becoming too difficult to defend if you lose a respawn point near your base the enemy controlling a ‘forward’ respawn point can’t appear there (but obviously neither can the good guys).

This might also mean that those dilligent troopers who defend the mansion house don’t sit around for ages never seeing a soul until a lone Axis player appears (which having defended in a few games is what usually happens). After all you don’t see anyone in the film saying to Connery.

“No sir, not a popo poppenerted attack by Jerry, just one looney who must have sneaked through the lines”.

Please don’t take the above as being in anyway critical - just remember you set the high standards when you built the map!

[TeoH]

“No sir, not a popo poppenerted attack by Jerry”.

Great, the conc filter even infects the public forums. Get rid of this crap

[SgtPerry]

First off, fantastic map, it looks great and at times feels like the film as you run through empty streets, covering each other and trying to get to the bridge before it blows. Knowing that the Germans are around somewhere and that they aren’t old men and Hitler Youth either!! (I must try it using the British para skin and voices for extra realism).

I just want to recall you that the Operation codename Market Garden took place in Netherlands (an occupied country) so there was no volkstrum unit involved.

Instead there were 2 SS Panzer Divisionen that were resting nearby (after the battle of Normandy) : SS Pz Division 9 “Hohenstaufen” and SS Pz Division 10 “Frundsberg”.

[monty]

You knows your history… if so you should remember that the intelligence briefings that took place for the Allies suggested that the Bridges were likely to be defended by ‘old men and hitler youth’. The presence of a couple of Panzer divisions and Studnet’s parachute army was an unwelcome surprise for the Allies.

Hnec my comment!

[pipari]

Hi!

First of all, I’d like to thank you Splash Damage team, for bringing this excellent map for the RTCW community!

But secondly, unfortunately I have some negative feedback regarding this map. Thou it’s excellent almost in everyway, there’s one major problem in it. And it goes like this:

When there is a large group of axis men attacking to the allied base. The whole gameplay, all over the map lags heavily down, everyone’s ping rises way over 100, more like nearly 200.
And it just gets worse when first axis or allied guy goes down on the base and leaves laying on the ground waiting for medic to revive him.

This is really annoying because it prevents axis from doing big organized attacks to the base, especially if the allies are having really strong defence.

This problem occurs on server when there’s around 30 players, little more or less.

Thank you!

-bipartitus

[Fluffy_gIMp]

Hi pipari,

Thanks for the feedback, we’ll certainly bear it in mind if we ever do remake market garden. Personally I’d love to see it re-made for Enemy Territory I think we’d do so many things better the second time around with the gift of hindsight, so maybe once it’s out I’ll take it on as a personal project… we’ll see

Market Garden was the first map we made for wolf, so as a first attempt it can’t be without its faults. There is no doubting it’s a HUGE map; and coming from a quake 3 level design background as we did, we didn’t have much of a conception of what was an acceptable size for a slower paced game like wolf (ie. No bunnyhopping etc.). In the early test versions of the map Wils had built the map to look far more open, with the villa at one end and the bridge at the other and sat in the middle the no mans land which was littered with a handful of houses. The idea for blocking visibility was to use wolf fog to limit the players field of sight, as it turned out in later tests the fog didn’t actually CULL polygons like we had thought. So what was once a level somewhat akin to the open plain battlefield 1942 Market garden level, became the tightly packed (visibility blocking) streets you play in today.

Anyhow the point I’m coming to (eventually), is that we didn’t design the level with huge player counts in mind, so the very fact that performance suffers when you have a group of 10+ attacking axis players is almost to be expected. Basically the issue comes down to the server having to send the client information on every player in that area, so if there are a lot of players in a given area there’s a lot of data. The way this would be fixed in future is to add some alternate routes to the villa; where by large groups of players can’t be seen by the client all in one go. What I’ll end by saying is that like any good games company we have learnt from the levels we’ve produced in the past, and are focused in always doing things better the next time around. So (for the sake of a plug) just wait for Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory because it really kicks ass!

-Fluffy_gIMp

[pipari]

Ah, remake of MG for the RTCWET would be more than sweet! =)

I’ve heard lot of reasons from other players suggested as to be the reason for lagging, the alpha mapped trees at base, hidden planes of
the base wall etc. =)

I hope you keep up the good work, and continue designing great maps
for the RTCW & RTCWET! =)

-bipartitus

[eyeronik]

Its a good looking map and a great achievement in one sense, on the other hand the bridge area goes too overboard and with rspeeds of up to 28,000 every pc no matter what it is suffers considerbly, add players to the count and the pc lag is immense. For the record i have a duron 1ghz, 320mb, geforce 4 ti 4200 128 and i get 15-20fps with no one on screen in those high areas, other than that the maps fine fps wise but i dont think its acceptable how that part of the map was made.

[Esf_Dr.X]

the flag is forbidden territory for allies…let axis have the flag and u can just walk thru the truck like a walk in the park from out the sewers. :bash:

[Esf_Fancy]

the flag is forbidden territory for allies…let axis have the flag and u can just walk thru the truck like a walk in the park from out the sewers. :bash:

well not always i the best way to leave the flag thoug
sometimes when the alies get the flag we go other way olee :moo:
so both of the ways are good with our without flag

cheers

[Esf_Dr.X]

V42 fancy :banghead: when allies have the flag,axis have a much easier way to out flank us(allies).its a known fact that the banner room and the mansion gate house will be overflood by axis,cuzz all allies (most of them)will spawn at flag which makes the allied command center fragile when theres no defense,noobs and players who are going for the score only dont care to much of gameplay and tactics and they curtainly dont retreat or fall back to HQ(allied command center) …this ends the lessons of today :notworthy: :drink:

[_Shogun]

ERmmm i don’t agreee with you X , You know 8 out 10 times there is always defense at the house by you know who .You both have some good points here but you need a TEAM to do it you can’t do it on your own and thats the biggest prob (not enough team work) .There are just a little bit to much loneners sometimes (not the gd regs )

[Esf_Dr.X]

V41 buddy it takes teamwork to play the game right…but its easier to secure the HQ when everybody spawn at banner room and HQ .
assemble teams for offense ,defend the sewers,and wait for a free run towards the bridge using sewers or north route. :eek: :disgust:

[GMA_StoggHoggly]

first of all, thank you for the map Splash Team, it made me get a pc after playing it for so long at a mates house.

'lo all, my first time here and already i see ppl i know nods to fancy, shogun, and Dr.X

I find nothing wrong with this map at all, i believe that it is set out almost perfectly, from spawn times and spawn locations to street layouts and hiding places, (again good work fellas)

Dr.X, as for the north or sewers route, i’m a huge fan of the north route but once past the north courtyard and through the tunnel more often than not i move towards the Axis spawn at the arch, it is the most effective way to the axis bridge and if you favor the sewersyou should try this way as once past the alley leading to the spawn there are 3 ways to go…

.1. to the right and over the wall into the river, or just to scope whats happening.

.2.to the left and over the wall under the bridge, once there you can go another 3 way (1) up ladder onto the bridge (2) in water and goto the right for quick access to the tower and (3) in the water to the left, which is most times the best way to go as it is very sneaky going under the bridge to the tower and for some reason the axis still dont check under there :???: there is also the small box the end of the bridge that you have to crouch to get in(this thing is almost as good as a tank you can survive panzers, airstrikes, and sometimes gunfire) and again no-one looks at it they dont even acknowledge it’s existence i have even hidden on top of it and not been seen :rocker2:

.3. and last but not least over the bridge (see above for most of the things that are good about going over bridge) and no-one expects you to cross it they dont even check behind themselves when they spawn and if it gets hairy jump in river.

once again thanks for the map guys, and i hope to see more great maps and this one continue to be played

Stogg

Your friendly Mute Assassin

[Esf_Dr.X]

V41 STOGG,im most of the time defending HQ or sewers,but when tryin to make a run for the tower,those options i’d suggest 2 :drink: cheers m8

[GMA_StoggHoggly]

a good choice Dr. X, 2 is the choice i go for most times, but recently i do a combo of Numbers 1 and 2 maybe shoota guy from the wall to the tower, then do a runner to the under side of the bridge, becaus emore often than not the axis are still consentraiting on the wall next to the river

it’s miller time